Panasonic GF3 - The dumbing down is complete.

The GF3 in a vacum is not a bad thing. Panasonic's problem is that they have been chasing a different market for a while and neglecting the market they snagged with the GF1.

I think if you step back and look at it they have things perfectly lined up. But...(big but) only if they introduce the new "pro" model. Then you have:

GF3 - ultra small, easy to use, aimed at beginners
G3 - very small, more features, EVF, aimed at intermediates
GH2 - advanced, best video, for more advanced users especially video folks
G? - pro model, complete evolution of the GF1, mixes features of G3 and GH2 with, hopefully, more direct control and EVF

Really the issue for us forum types is that the G? has been so long in coming. Panasonic should at least get the announcement out the door.

I see nothing wrong with where they've taken the G3 and GF3 even though neither do a lot for me.
 
I'm so glad I got my GF1 when I did. It's usable enough (the menu is a real pain, though, and the layout of some buttons are very after-thoughtish).

I'm sure that the Vice-President and executives in charge of this camera are too busy counting their bonus money to care about customer feedback and interface/usability research.
 
I'm a fan of dxomark, and a few review sites, so when I saw the sensor was a bit better in high ISO (I shoot indoors and in the dark a lot w/o flash), I thought it was a move in the right direction, but not enough to sway me from film or entry level DSLRs.
 
I will be waiting patiently for the next sensor. With Nikon, I learned I was better off to buy late in the product cycle for a given sensor and skip iterations. So far I have skipped 10mpx & 14mpx - I'm in for the 16 when things settle down a bit.

I just bought an E-PL2 and I'm quite taken with it. Just having fun shooting weird angles, shooting at lunchtime, revisiting local landmarks. It's no Leica, but it's definitely a "rangefinder-like" experience when it comes to fun and enjoyment. Still shooting film - but mostly 120 and larger these days.
 
I agree that the gf3 is hideous and a serious step backwards, however panasonic themselves have said that they're splitting the GF line - an advanced model GF to replace the gf1 is definitely coming.

In the mean time though, the g3 looks like a potent little cam! It's about the same size as the gf1, but has a built in envd and the sensor is apparently better than most entry level dslr sensors st high iso
 
fdigital said:
however panasonic themselves have said that they're splitting the GF line - an advanced model GF to replace the gf1 is definitely coming.
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I hope they keep it shaped like the GF1 and not like the G series. However, I would like them to at least implement an EVF.
 
While I understand the disappointment registered, I think it is a good thing if the base of micro 4/3 users is expanded. That could lead to more lenses being made for the camera. And it could lead to some of those users choosing at some point to acquire a more "professional" model. It seems this is not dissimilar to what Olympus did when it introduced the OM-10 way back when; whether this had the effect Olympus intended, I don't know.
 
kdemas said:
Now, the GF3 has finished the job, external controls toast, thumbwheel control gone, flash and EVF/Accessory port gone, stereo audio capture gone. .
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But this is roughly how 4/3 and m4/3 advances have gone since their introduction. They milk the technology until its all used up. The GF3 is likely to be the final consumer advance using the current parts bin at Panasonic until another major jump/upgrade with a GF4.

I see no reason to be despondant, its the sign that a new 'serious' GF model is coming soon.

Steve
 
I love my GF-1, and really, the only improvements I would like in the next GF model would be a tad better higher ISO performance, faster autofocus, and especially a much better EVF. It is a great camera and just needs a bit of tweaking.
 
The thing that I'm really bummed about is the dumbing down of Olympus. At present, if you want the highest quality optics for your panasonic or olympus m4/3 body, you skip Olympus and go straight to the panasonic line. How is it that Olympus - in the film SLR days considered to be one of the finest optics manufacturers is now being led in optics by one of the most general electronics companies around?

Panasonic at current have the 14mm f2.5, the 20mm f1.7, the 25mm f1.4, the 45mm f2.8, and apparently there's another prime coming. And all are better than the zuiko lenses in the same focal lengths. As far as primes go - Olympus has 1. The mediocre 17mm f2.8. However, there's supposed to be a 12mm f2 coming out later this year, and it's supposedly going to be a Tatsuno plant lens - I can only hope it'll kick off more high quality Zuiko primes.

Edit: Geeze I just realized I'm really starting to sound like a broken record with this... Sorry guys
 
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I'd go back to Pany if the "prosumer" G body rumored about is decent. The skeptic in me thinks it will be laden down with video features and rely on touch screens rather than manual controls. This is opposed to what I want -- a few stops better high ISO/dynamic range performance and a slightly larger grip/better user interface than the original G1. But I don't think a photographer's concerns are even on their radar screen.

Having that nice EVF does little good if you can't navigate the controls without a touch screen.

They're just going to keep making half-a$$ed video cameras that don't do a good job of shooting vids or stills.
 
This sort of crap makes you realise that Fuji really climbed out on a limb with the X100 design ... kudos to them I say because no one else seems to have the balls to break the shackles.
 
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Keith said:
This sort of crap makes you realise that Fuji really climbed out on a limb with the X100 design ... kudos to them I say because no one seems to have the balls to break the shackles.
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Yep, and the camera is still consistently sold before it even reaches the showroom of every camera store in Melbourne that can get it in. I've still yet to see a real production one because they can't get enough of them to satisfy demand.

To me it's a sign that (and I've always suspected this) the market research done by japanese camera companies is bull****. The x100 is proof that people don't really want a camera with no controls and a borderline retarded touchscreen. Companies like Panasonic and especially Olympus should get back to making real cameras, not toys or half assed video cameras or dumbed down cameras designed for halfwits.
I hope they read this.
 
I'd believe all the hype about the X100 if the photographs made with it were somehow better images than any other camera. Seems to me from those posted its still mainly used to badly photograph the same old things and we are expected to pixel peep at every one to appreciate its small advance's.

And of course that is the point about the GF3 as well, give a monkey a gold fountain pen and its not going to write a Pulitzer winning book. Most cameras are for buying and selling and hoping that one day it makes a photograph that Aunty Mabel will like. And the only cameras that don't come into that bracket are the ones where the photographer invokes his/her personality and vision on the equipment, whatever the camera, whatever its price, whatever the situation.

Steve
 
250swb said:
I'd believe all the hype about the X100 if the photographs made with it were somehow better images than any other camera. Seems to me from those posted its still mainly used to badly photograph the same old things and we are expected to pixel peep at every one to appreciate its small advance's.

And of course that is the point about the GF3 as well, give a monkey a gold fountain pen and its not going to write a Pulitzer winning book. Most cameras are for buying and selling and hoping that one day it makes a photograph that Aunty Mabel will like. And the only cameras that don't come into that bracket are the ones where the photographer invokes his/her personality and vision on the equipment, whatever the camera, whatever its price, whatever the situation.

Steve
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Why should it be perceived to be better than everything else?

It's a very competent photographic tool that in the hands of the right photographer will maximise it's potential courtesy of a good design.

Image quality wise, which is less important IMO, it's not that far behind my D700 so if I can't take decent photos with my Nikon it's unlikely the Fuji will do much for me. It's up to the person holding the camera and as far as I'm concerned the X100 has the best potential for a compact design in a sea of dross from the other players.
 
250swb said:
I'd believe all the hype about the X100 if the photographs made with it were somehow better images than any other camera. Seems to me from those posted its still mainly used to badly photograph the same old things and we are expected to pixel peep at every one to appreciate its small advance's.

And of course that is the point about the GF3 as well, give a monkey a gold fountain pen and its not going to write a Pulitzer winning book. Most cameras are for buying and selling and hoping that one day it makes a photograph that Aunty Mabel will like. And the only cameras that don't come into that bracket are the ones where the photographer invokes his/her personality and vision on the equipment, whatever the camera, whatever its price, whatever the situation.

Steve
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WHoa. What a stunning observation! Thanks for this - I'm sure no-one here would have realised that a better camera won't make them a Martin Parr or a William Eggleston. We'd better tell Martin Parr and WIlliam Eggleston that, too!

And yes, re the GF3, very sad. I suspect the problem comes from the sales team - in every company, they tend to want their products to look like everyone else's, hence the "same-ing" of everything. When they get control, the company, while in a cash-cow phase, is often doomed.
 
250swb said:
I'd believe all the hype about the X100 if the photographs made with it were somehow better images than any other camera. Seems to me from those posted its still mainly used to badly photograph the same old things and we are expected to pixel peep at every one to appreciate its small advance's.
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It's not about the huge advances in quality (though it's up there with the best of the APS-C cameras)...it's about the ergonomics, OVF, and user interface (shutter speed dials and aperture ring). Bad photos are made with every camera on the market.
 
Well, here's the thing. The Japanese home market mirrorless segment is dominated by Sony NEX, a camera which has no hot shoe, very few direct control buttons, no possibility of using an EVF and a lens road map that looks like the middle of a desert. Gotta be small, cute, cool and fun, with better image quality than P&S.

The size of the happysnap market dwarfs all of us who fret and fritter on these forums. Happysnappers are where the numbers and easy converts are, and that market doesn't care about hot shoes or EVFs or AF/AE buttons or fast lenses. I'd say Sony stole Pana's thunder here, and I imagine there's lots of high-level pressure to aggressively target this market.

So the GF3 is moving towards a bigger, less technically demanding market. As others have said, I hope they sell a ton of them. Thank goodness the dumbing down is complete, we'll hopefully see some impressive market penetration! Bring more users into the fold, and make some money to spend on higher-end product.

Pana product staff have said they're not abandoning the GF1 concept, so those wanting an enthusiast-targeted update of the GF1 will not likely be abandoned. That doesn't guarantee you'll like their decisions, the cam could be smaller, it could be more touchscreen-dependent, it may not. Nobody who knows is telling us any details. You can complain this model isn't coming fast enough to suit you, but Pana is subtly telling you this isn't where the big money is. Pana exists to sell product, not to keep forum posters happy, and in our world of compromises, no new product makes everyone happy.

I'm perceiving a 4-level product positioning strategy:

GFx: small, compact, simple: happysnappers
Gx: entry-/mid-level DSLR replacement: happysnappers/enthusiasts
GPx: (model designation my own invention): GF1/RF-type: enthusiast/adv.
GHx: high-end DSLR replacement: advanced users, videographers

Whether the GPx slots above or below the GHx, I dunno. Will it go more analog and be a direct Fuji X100 competitor, or an upscale GFx with more buttons and manual control? Pana seems pretty adept at both targeting and broadening audiences. I can't see them abandoning hi-def video, and I can't imagine a mostly-analog M9-like cam. M4/3 lenses have no aperture rings and no mechanical focusing mechanism, so aperture setting will still have to be body-dependent and it will be primarily AF.

I'm somewhat easily annoyed by the: "Why can't they make what I want now? I'm selling everything I have and buying something else!" whining, so I apologize if I sound harsh. I think life is too short for whining, and I haven't been this excited about camera offerings since Cosina entered the RF market.
 
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Keith said:
This sort of crap makes you realise that Fuji really climbed out on a limb with the X100 design ... kudos to them I say because no one else seems to have the balls to break the shackles.
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I seem to remember that a lot of us on RFF (myself included) said the same thing about Panasonic when the GF1 was released. :p And, there was some speculation that Panasonic was doing its market research by lurking here on RFF.

I wonder what successive versions of the X100 (X200, X300) will look like if Fuji applies the Panasonic method of model progression? Methinks the X400 will have a consumer-grade (f3.5 - f8) zoom, an OVF (no hybrid and no EVF), a flip-out touch screen, and a white molded plastic body with a single idiot knob on top (with a half dozen shooting mode settings). :D
It would be dumb & ugly, but it would always be in-stock at Target and Best Buy!


/
 
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