Rvl
Member
What is the weight of the Perkeo II?
I found a pic online comparing the Perkeo to the Moskva
I found a pic online comparing the Perkeo to the Moskva
Godfrey
somewhat colored
Put these on the kitchen scale just now:
Voigtländer Perkeo II - 540g
Leica M4-2 fitted with Voigtländer Color Skopar 35mm f/2.5 - 687g
Voigtländer Bessa III - 1,021g
Leica M4-2 fitted with Voigtländer Color Skopar 35mm f/2.5 - 687g
Voigtländer Bessa III - 1,021g
The Perkeo II is actually about 3/4 inch shorter than the M4-2, similar depth, and about 1/4 inch taller. It's remarkable how small it is for a 6x6 format camera!
I found a pic online comparing the Perkeo to the Moskva
Hmm. Maybe tomorrow I'll snap a few comparison photos of the three cameras above, particularly the Bessa III vs Perkeo II.
G
kuzano
Mentor
Size comparison....
Size comparison....
Here is a comparison for size of my G690bl/100mm 3.5 (just back yesterday from Frank Marshman for CLA and back door latch repair), My *******ized Perkeo I/Perkeo II, and one of my OM-1/50mm 1.4.
The Perkeo came to me as two cameras. The film count/stop double shot prevention was demolished on the Perkeo II and unrepairable. However, it had the Color Skopar front standard, and the lens in Synchro Compur to 1/500th. I combined the two and did away with ALL the shot prevention, and film count/stop system. It became a totally reliable, very good 6X6 everyday shooter. No complexities and I use the ruby window for advancing the film, hence NO problems with frame spacing.
The hood on the Perkeo is OEM Voigtlander, slip on and rotates with the front focus cell. Since there are no guts and gears under the top plate, I know I can count on this camera to shoot every time, and for film to be in the right place. It's a very simple work flow and followed properly works. I never advance the film or cock the shutter on closing. That's always the first thing I do when I open the camera front door/bellows.
The only MF folder I have ever used that is smaller than the Perkeo is the japanese Zenobia 645. I have two of those, but shoot very little 645. The Perkeo and the Zenobia are definitely coat pocket cameras.
I've used the OM-1 for years, and the meter has malfunctioned but it's 100% otherwise.
Size comparison....
Here is a comparison for size of my G690bl/100mm 3.5 (just back yesterday from Frank Marshman for CLA and back door latch repair), My *******ized Perkeo I/Perkeo II, and one of my OM-1/50mm 1.4.
The Perkeo came to me as two cameras. The film count/stop double shot prevention was demolished on the Perkeo II and unrepairable. However, it had the Color Skopar front standard, and the lens in Synchro Compur to 1/500th. I combined the two and did away with ALL the shot prevention, and film count/stop system. It became a totally reliable, very good 6X6 everyday shooter. No complexities and I use the ruby window for advancing the film, hence NO problems with frame spacing.
The hood on the Perkeo is OEM Voigtlander, slip on and rotates with the front focus cell. Since there are no guts and gears under the top plate, I know I can count on this camera to shoot every time, and for film to be in the right place. It's a very simple work flow and followed properly works. I never advance the film or cock the shutter on closing. That's always the first thing I do when I open the camera front door/bellows.
The only MF folder I have ever used that is smaller than the Perkeo is the japanese Zenobia 645. I have two of those, but shoot very little 645. The Perkeo and the Zenobia are definitely coat pocket cameras.
I've used the OM-1 for years, and the meter has malfunctioned but it's 100% otherwise.
citizen99
Well-known
Yes! That's what's best, add simplicity. Yes
.You can get excellent results with a great number of the older, simpler folders. But as others have mentioned above, viewfinder size would be smaller than is customary with more modern gear, it depends how the trade-off works for you.
Peter_wrote:
Well-known
Bronica RF645?
flip
良かったね！
Fuji 670 and Makina 67 can be found for similar prices - perhaps a bit more for the Fuji locally and presumably due to finder, options, and age. If speed is the issue, the choice is clear. I suppose it depends on how / where / for what you plan to use it. Mamiya systems seem much cheaper to buy here, whether 6 or 7.
dct
perpetual amateur
A Bronica RF645 should be in the same ball park as a Mamiya 6 regarding weight and compactness. That camera might also be an option. I'm also thinking about it.
segedi
RFicianado
Take your pick : http://www.rangefinderforum.com/pho...36661/title/bronica-rf6452f-mamiya-7-ii/cat/4
For size the RF645 is great. But the 7 beats it in quietness.
For size the RF645 is great. But the 7 beats it in quietness.
kuzano
Mentor
My feelings on folder automation.
My feelings on folder automation.
Double shot prevention was a fairly good, and reasonably simple when it hit the folders.
Personally however, I feel that film count/auto spacing/auto stop was a downer for folders in the mid 50's.
Oh Yes, I can hear a lot of people warming up their keyboards to refute me on this one.
However, I had three of the Mamiya Automat 6 folders, and four Perkeo twos. Of those camera's all the Mamiyas had frame spacing problems, and two outright failed. So now I have one VERY reliable Mamiya Automat 6, which still has the double shot prevention, but NO film count/film stop. I use the ruby windows.
Three of the Perkeo twos simply failed to stop or count frames accurately.
As a result of these experiences, I feel the two (Mamiya Automat 6 ('55 or '56) and the one Perkeo I/II are dependable to the point that if I go shooting, I will gladly leave behind any backup cameras.
Ah, the wonders of Automation.
It's certainly wonderful that the intro and evolution has done away with all that confusing automation????? ehhhh?
By the Way... I am no longer digital, other than my little $30 Fuji Point and Shoot for eBay. Well, presently anyhooo.
My feelings on folder automation.
Yes! That's what's best, add simplicity. Yes
You can get excellent results with a great number of the older, simpler folders. But as others have mentioned above, viewfinder size would be smaller than is customary with more modern gear, it depends how the trade-off works for you.
Double shot prevention was a fairly good, and reasonably simple when it hit the folders.
Personally however, I feel that film count/auto spacing/auto stop was a downer for folders in the mid 50's.
Oh Yes, I can hear a lot of people warming up their keyboards to refute me on this one.
However, I had three of the Mamiya Automat 6 folders, and four Perkeo twos. Of those camera's all the Mamiyas had frame spacing problems, and two outright failed. So now I have one VERY reliable Mamiya Automat 6, which still has the double shot prevention, but NO film count/film stop. I use the ruby windows.
Three of the Perkeo twos simply failed to stop or count frames accurately.
As a result of these experiences, I feel the two (Mamiya Automat 6 ('55 or '56) and the one Perkeo I/II are dependable to the point that if I go shooting, I will gladly leave behind any backup cameras.
Ah, the wonders of Automation.
It's certainly wonderful that the intro and evolution has done away with all that confusing automation????? ehhhh?
By the Way... I am no longer digital, other than my little $30 Fuji Point and Shoot for eBay. Well, presently anyhooo.
Godfrey
somewhat colored
Following up:
The mechanical film count/auto frame spacing on both my Balda Baldix and Voigtländer Perkeo II work perfectly, as it also does on the Bessa III (to be expected). Don't really care one way or the other as long as they work. Double exposure prevention is generally a good thing, can sometimes get in the way, but it's so much easier to composite if that's your goal with image processing nowadays I don't know why I'd ever want to make multiple exposure images other than for the sheer perversity of it.
(My Perkeo II has this morning jammed the door, which is why I didn't shoot a another picture of each with the standard open. I think it's just the catch that engages the door may be slightly bent, but I'll let Fred over at the repair shop take a look at it this week.)
enjoy,
G
Spanik
Well-known
The Bronica is certainly not a folder and at 1.2kg not a lightweight. Takes as much space in my bag as a Mamiya 645ProTL.
jim_jm
Well-known
Another vote here for the Bronica RF645. If you're considering the Mamiya 6/7 cameras, the Bronica may also work for you. They can be had for much less than the Mamiya, although they seem to be harder to find on the used market. Tamron ceased production in 2005.
I was looking for an MF camera for backpacking/hiking, as my Bronica SQ-A is just too bulky and heavy to really consider. I looked at the Mamiyas (pricey) as well as all the Fujis, but everything seemed to be a compromise in one way or another. 6x7 would have been nice, but the 645 format is turning out great for my needs. It's nice getting 16 shots per roll as opposed to 12 for 6x6.
The viewfinder is great and the RF patch is clear and easy to focus. It's nice having the LED display in the VF and it's placed to the side so it's not a distraction while shooting. Some folks don't get along with the default portrait format, but I haven't had any problem with it. The camera is easy to hold and the controls layout is great - very similar in feel to most 35mm SLR's and RF's. It's obviously not as compact as a 6x6 folder like an Ikonta, but overall size and weight is about the same as any Nikon F-series SLR. Build quality is great, this camera feels solid and not plasticy at all.
It's not the quietest RF, but much better than any SLR. The shutter seems to make a low wheezing sound after firing, but it's not been an issue. The meter's been spot-on and the lenses are great, although the choices are limited to 45,65 and 100mm. Tamron made a 135mm lens, but discontinued it when they realized the RF was not accurate enough to reliably focus a lens that long. Some folks have reported problems with the film advance, but I suspect some try to wind too quickly like a 35mm camera. I just use care when winding and haven't had any problems with frame spacing or otherwise.
I've been really surprised at how quick and easy this camera is to shoot with. I'm now using it more for street photography - the control layout is great. No autofocus to mess with, but A and P exposure modes if I need them. My only gripes are the limited lens range and you need to remove the hood to attach a lens cap or filters.
Good luck with your search!
I was looking for an MF camera for backpacking/hiking, as my Bronica SQ-A is just too bulky and heavy to really consider. I looked at the Mamiyas (pricey) as well as all the Fujis, but everything seemed to be a compromise in one way or another. 6x7 would have been nice, but the 645 format is turning out great for my needs. It's nice getting 16 shots per roll as opposed to 12 for 6x6.
The viewfinder is great and the RF patch is clear and easy to focus. It's nice having the LED display in the VF and it's placed to the side so it's not a distraction while shooting. Some folks don't get along with the default portrait format, but I haven't had any problem with it. The camera is easy to hold and the controls layout is great - very similar in feel to most 35mm SLR's and RF's. It's obviously not as compact as a 6x6 folder like an Ikonta, but overall size and weight is about the same as any Nikon F-series SLR. Build quality is great, this camera feels solid and not plasticy at all.
It's not the quietest RF, but much better than any SLR. The shutter seems to make a low wheezing sound after firing, but it's not been an issue. The meter's been spot-on and the lenses are great, although the choices are limited to 45,65 and 100mm. Tamron made a 135mm lens, but discontinued it when they realized the RF was not accurate enough to reliably focus a lens that long. Some folks have reported problems with the film advance, but I suspect some try to wind too quickly like a 35mm camera. I just use care when winding and haven't had any problems with frame spacing or otherwise.
I've been really surprised at how quick and easy this camera is to shoot with. I'm now using it more for street photography - the control layout is great. No autofocus to mess with, but A and P exposure modes if I need them. My only gripes are the limited lens range and you need to remove the hood to attach a lens cap or filters.
Good luck with your search!
rhl-oregon
Cameras Guitars Wonders
++1 on RF 645. And I have been shouting the gospel to someone of RFF to keep the current great deal from INsight ($725 with 65mm) in the RFF family.
Here's the link: http://www.rangefinderforum.com/pho...38/title/bronica-rf64565mm-zenzanon-obo/cat/4
He'd really like to sell this for the holiday cash reasons.
Yes, it's bigger than a 50s folder, bigger than an M, and 645 rather than 6x6--and as Jim notes you want to be kind when you wind, and the shutter does actually wheeze--but it makes splendid exposures.
Godfrey's recommendation of the Perkeo II is the other one I'd consider (if I wasn't already happy with my little-old-simplicity-personified Ikonta 520 with 75 Tessar. If I need RF, I got a Watameter).
Here's the link: http://www.rangefinderforum.com/pho...38/title/bronica-rf64565mm-zenzanon-obo/cat/4
He'd really like to sell this for the holiday cash reasons.
Yes, it's bigger than a 50s folder, bigger than an M, and 645 rather than 6x6--and as Jim notes you want to be kind when you wind, and the shutter does actually wheeze--but it makes splendid exposures.
Godfrey's recommendation of the Perkeo II is the other one I'd consider (if I wasn't already happy with my little-old-simplicity-personified Ikonta 520 with 75 Tessar. If I need RF, I got a Watameter).
DCphotos
Member
I just got a Fuji gw690iii. I don't think it's a heavy camera at all, it's big but it's a freakin 6x9 camera. I carry a Nikon D3s everyday at work, the Fuji is much lighter.
Rvl
Member
I have the Fuji 690BL , it is heavy
I didnt realize , that the newer ones are alot lighter
I like that the Perkeo is so small
Thanks for the photos
I am waiting to find a 645 and a Perkeo to try out
Thanks
Robert
I didnt realize , that the newer ones are alot lighter
I like that the Perkeo is so small
Thanks for the photos
I am waiting to find a 645 and a Perkeo to try out
Thanks
Robert
charjohncarter
Mentor
I'll stick to my Balda Hapo 66e: small, light, RF (uncoupled), f3.5 very sharp for a folder, not too many shutter speeds?, film counter, easy to load, good viewfinder, not as tough as an Isolette but close.
Pioneer
Mentor
I am a bit partial to my little Ansco Speedex Special R 6x6 folder for the same reasons. Light, compact, uncoupled rangefinder, w/nice, sharp, 85mm Apotar lens. Does a nice job without weighing you down. My Super Isolette is also very nice but seems to weigh considerably more than the Speedex.
charjohncarter
Mentor
I have two Isolette cameras, not specials, I have a rangfinder for them so they are about as nice. Like you my Apotars are quite sharp.
Rvl
Member
thanks for everyones help
I picked up a Japanese camera called a Press Van today
http://camerapedia.wikia.com/wiki/Press_Van
mine is 6x6 or 6x4.5
still have to run a roll through it
thanks
Robert
I picked up a Japanese camera called a Press Van today
http://camerapedia.wikia.com/wiki/Press_Van
mine is 6x6 or 6x4.5
still have to run a roll through it
thanks
Robert
John Robertson
Well-known
Sorry could not recommend this one!! Worst camera owned in 50+ years of photography!!!
Light leaks, holey bellows, hairline cracks in plastic body where lens board hinge fitted, interlock between wind and shutter repeatedly failed.
GS 645 folder, No No No!!!
Light leaks, holey bellows, hairline cracks in plastic body where lens board hinge fitted, interlock between wind and shutter repeatedly failed.
GS 645 folder, No No No!!!