16/18/21 Tri-elmar

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Sailor Ted

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Ok I am down to my last two choices for my 30% lens discount (good thing because I feel so cheated and used by Leica : ) Anyway it's down to the 35mm Summilux or this lens. The thing is I have the 12mm CV and my 21mm Zeiss Biogon sooo is this lens going to be that much different then my 12mm and 15mm CV lenses and if so how? I am certain the 21mm Zeiss will hold it's own and it’s faster. Will this lens have performance/ utility to warrant its expense? Also what about the Aux. Universal Finder? At first when I saw that thing I thought- my god has Leica lost their minds?

Any thought will be appreciated. PS. I have a non-asph 35mm Summicron if that plays into the equation.

Thanks in advance,
Ted
 
Easy. Get the 35mm Lux and sell off the pre-asph cron. With the 30% off and the proceeds of the cron you'll have made the upgrade relatively painlessly. IHMO the tri-elmars are both just too big, too slow and too expensive to make any sense at all. And that finder is just too hilarious to even discuss.
 
I agree with Vladimer. The long TE is fine for its use, but I find the WATE a bit of a white elephant, especially with the viewfinder. Get the 35 Summilux and later the prime wideangle Leica is virtually sure to release within the year. (staring a baseless rumour here:D)
 
You don't have to use the new frankenleica finder you can use the M Multi Finder 21/24/28mm on the M8 (16-18-21 x 1.33).
 
How are you dealing with the 12 and the 21 Zeiss cyan corner fringing from the IR filter? The WATE is a coded lens that should supposedly correct it automatically with the upcoming firmware (though I can't figure out how it will know which focal length is in use since it doesn't have the frameline switch like the other Tri-E).

And although given your continually ridiculing me for buying used I assume you never stoop to that, it is possible to get a good-as-new 35 Summilux-ASPH for far less than 30% off the current MSRP, but not so the WATE, so for me the decision, if it were between the two, would go to the WATE. And BTW on an M8 there's no need for that gross-looking monstrosity of a finder, the 21-24-28 tri-finder (which can also be found mint for way less) works.
 
I thought about the 16/18/21 tri-E, to plug the widest lens spot in my lineup too, but forgot about it when I looked at the graphs, especially distortion (and the new price). Though so far I'm all Leica with nothing below the 28 Elmarit, one of the ZM 21s is on my list, as is the CV 15.

My suggestion is to buy the CV 15, and compare it to your CV12, and report back here on your experiences!

I'm still looking for someone that has experience with a hand coded CV15 (to mimic the 16mm WATE?)
 
Thanks guys 35 lux it is!

At this point I would not even answer such a question put forth in Ben’s inimitable style however for the sake of those that may be reading and influenced by some of his points here goes:

Cyan fringe on the super wides with IR cut filters and no 6-bit coding? This is simple- Lightroom has cyan (or magenta) sliders to control color fringe just as we control light fall off on our R-D1's with Epson RAW converters- just move the slider until it’s gone and PRESTO.

"Tri-E how do it know?" I guess the Frankin finder not only corrects for parallax but I'd also guess it tells the camera which focal length your shooting when (if) you have the correct focal length selected through the hot shoe- guessing.

Mint used lenses? Perhaps and perhaps not but a BRAND NEW lens will be mint and I've decided on the 35mm lux and of all the lenses I could have this is one I'd want to make 100% certain I'm getting 100% performance- life is just too short, don't you agree?

Ben Z said:
your attempt to paint me as simply a cheapskate won't work.
Click to expand...

Ben I don’t have to “attempt” to paint you as a cheapskate- you're doing a fine job of it all by yourself : )
 
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jim_buchanan said:
My suggestion is to buy the CV 15, and compare it to your CV12, and report back here on your experiences!
Click to expand...

I've got one and I'll take it out for a spin but suspect I'll prefer the 12mm due to its sharper edge-to-edge performance. We shall see : )
 
Sailor Ted said:
Cyan fringe on the super wides with IR cut filters and no 6-bit coding? This is simple- Lightroom has cyan (or magenta) sliders to control color fringe just as we control light fall off on our R-D1's with Epson RAW converters- just move the slider until it’s gone and PRESTO.
Click to expand...

Panorama Tools (a free Photoshop plugin) has the same facility. But having to manually correct the cyan fringing for each shot is more than some people might want to do, especially if the coding does it automatically.


"Tri-E how do it know?" I guess the Frankin finder not only corrects for parallax but I'd also guess it tells the camera which focal length your shooting when (if) you have the correct focal length selected through the hot shoe- guessing.
Click to expand...

Since the finder has no contacts on the underside of the foot, your guess is wrong.

Mint used lenses? Perhaps and perhaps not but a BRAND NEW lens will be mint and I've decided on the 35mm lux and of all the lenses I could have this is one I'd want to make 100% certain I'm getting 100% performance- life is just too short, don't you agree?

Ben I don’t have to “attempt” to paint you as a cheapskate- you're doing a fine job of it all by yourself : )
Click to expand...

Well, now everyone on the forum who buys anything used knows exactly what you think of them.
 
If anyone takes offense to me purchasing a brand new 35mm Summilux then I offer you my sincere apologies (I too have picked up some nice used gear- I just can't pass on an opportunity to get a shiny new 35mm Summilux with a $500 discount off of the best discount price available for this lens! : )
 
Looking at WATE prices in my Leica letter, their offer is ~$900 off most USA warranties, and ~$500 off grey market. Not a bad deal.

I've been thinking about the WATE, and my biggest problem is a whole series of unknowns, the biggest being the magenta/cyan issue. On these lenses, software 1.10 will supposedly correct cyan vignetting caused by overcorrection by the external filters.

The problem is, with the wide-angle tri-elmar, the camera doesn't have any way to know which focal length has been chosen, so correction would seem to be a serious problem. There have been some suggestions that Leica may go to a menu-based selection to make the correction (push the SET button, and you can click around to whichever focal length you're using.)

Another problem is that you can't use a filter with the lens hood on the current design, and you really need both, given the IR problem and the lens design. So there have been some suggestions that Leica may have to redesign the front end, in a WATE Mark II. In that case, your WATE Mark I might suffer a severe decline in market value, should you ever wish to sell.

I don't know. I'm sort of hung up, and I've decided to WATE a while before making a decision.

JC
 
When you have to use a finder almost as big as the camera and tell the camera what focal length your using before you take the shot, thats when you should go for a prime or if you need multiple wide focal lengths look at a DSLR with a wide zoom. RF cameras are great at what they are great at, they suck outside the uses they are well suited for. The WATE just looks like a real Rube Goldberg contraption.
 
Hank, the enormous finder is only required if you use the lens on a full-frame body, which at this point and perhaps for the forseeable future means a film body, and I really wonder how many people will buy the WATE for that. With the M8 the WATE translates to 21-24-28mm so Leica's current large but not humungus 21-24-28 finder is what I think many people will use who only shoot the lens on an M8. As to needing to tell the camera the focal length, that could evaporate if the need for IR filters is done away with in subsequent times, as would the problem with using a filter and hood together. So it isn't fair to pin this on rangefinder cameras as a class, it's strictly a Leica M8 thing, and one that is both livable at present and solvable in the future. I appreciate the increased flexibility of a DSLR and zooms but I do not appreciate the size and weight penalty it requires.
 
Come to think of it, just a 24 mm finder and guesstimate the 21/28 framing would probably be quite doable. Remains the filter issue. I'm sure it can't be too difficult, given the weird construction of the hood as it is, to cobble up some solution.
 
jaapv said:
Come to think of it, just a 24 mm finder and guesstimate the 21/28 framing would probably be quite doable. Remains the filter issue. I'm sure it can't be too difficult, given the weird construction of the hood as it is, to cobble up some solution.
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"Cobbling" seems to be a recurrent theme with Leica lately:( It takes a very special mindset to find that acceptible on a $3900 lens :rolleyes: I would hope Leica could come up with something more elegant, perhaps a hood with an integral IR filter.
 
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