Roger Hicks
Mentor
Well, yes. That's why, as I've said before, I chose law instead of photography when I had a choice of the two. But that was in the days before student debt. Now... I really don't know what I'd do, and I'm damn' glad I don't have to make the choice. Probably move to France, where it's still possible to leave university debt-free, as the very dear daughter of an old, old friend has recently done.
I fully take your point that what he says is worth saying, but I will never be persuaded that he is any good at saying it. This is important. The subtext of his diatribe is "The only way to succeed is to become a pompous, self-important little prick." A lot of people would rather fail in business than fail as human beings.
Cheers,
R.
x-ray
Mentor
The fellow who wrote this is 100% dead on the money. I don't see him as pompous at all.
IMO students need a punch in the face before they spend six $$$ figures on a degree in photography. I and another commercial photographer friend have had parallel businesses for most of our careers. I've owned a very successful studio for 45+ years. My friend has been in business almost that long. My friend has a degree from Brooks and I apprenticed for a year and a half with a master photographer and then worked for another six months with pay. Four years at a high $ cost in school or one and a half apprenticing for free and a half year to learn the same thing plus in my case I shot and printed real jobs with real art directors and clients every day.
In my career I have never had a client ask if I had a degree. It's all about your portfolio, the way you work with clients, reliability and the ability to resolve problems creatively. It's about delivering the goods each and every time. No excuses allowed.
The university in my city cranks out photo grads every semester. I used to take some in as interns but no longer. In the years of doing this I never found one that was reliable and would actually show up and never found one that had a drop of true talent. I e only seen 2 grads out of roughly 2000 that have gotten photo jobs and make a living at it.
Every year when the new phone book comes out there's always a flood of new commercial photographers. The next years book they are all gone and there's a new flood of photographers. In my career there have only been about 4 of us in my area that still are making a living.
Notice I said living not good living. The new economy devistated the commercial world. Those of us making well into the six figures saw our incomes drop 50-70%. For some of us we still make a good living but for most they are out of business or working a part time job. I'm not trying to be pompous here, its just a fact of life. Most studios just limped along in the good times and when the bad came it put them under.
I'm fortunate that I'm still in business and seeing a little growth again. I had several great clients go bankrupt. I had others simply pull back and try to shoot their own work. This is the group now coming back with an understanding it takes more than a camera to be a photographer. New business is hard to come by. I had a rep out for a year selling and only turned up one good client.
The dynamic of business has changed. Inexpensive DSLR's and enthusiasts have bled the photo industry to death. Not so much the commercial but the wedding and portrait and commercial to a lesser degree. I have two physician friends that love photography and one other friend. They shoot kids sports for fun and either sell prints very cheap to the parents or give them away. This takes the work away from those that once made a living at it. A good friend and past employ of mine is now working at Lowes because of this.
Its happening to the commercial world too. Good enough is good enough.
My wife and I were out to dinner and a drink last Friday evening. Sitting in the bar three women were sitting at the bar. One a librarian the others I'm not certain. All three were talking when the conversation became where they went to school and their degrees. The librarians husband came in and sat down and the conversation evolved to what they do for a living. The short of it was two out of the four saw themselves as commercial photographers shooting little jobs on the side from their regular jobs.
My point, you may shoot a little job here or there but that doesn't make you a photographer. You might think you're making great bucks at $50/hour but you're not factoring in expenses like insurance, automotive, repairs, equipment and most pay no taxes. it's all under the table.
I deviated from topic a little but I agree 100% with the article.
IMO students need a punch in the face before they spend six $$$ figures on a degree in photography. I and another commercial photographer friend have had parallel businesses for most of our careers. I've owned a very successful studio for 45+ years. My friend has been in business almost that long. My friend has a degree from Brooks and I apprenticed for a year and a half with a master photographer and then worked for another six months with pay. Four years at a high $ cost in school or one and a half apprenticing for free and a half year to learn the same thing plus in my case I shot and printed real jobs with real art directors and clients every day.
In my career I have never had a client ask if I had a degree. It's all about your portfolio, the way you work with clients, reliability and the ability to resolve problems creatively. It's about delivering the goods each and every time. No excuses allowed.
The university in my city cranks out photo grads every semester. I used to take some in as interns but no longer. In the years of doing this I never found one that was reliable and would actually show up and never found one that had a drop of true talent. I e only seen 2 grads out of roughly 2000 that have gotten photo jobs and make a living at it.
Every year when the new phone book comes out there's always a flood of new commercial photographers. The next years book they are all gone and there's a new flood of photographers. In my career there have only been about 4 of us in my area that still are making a living.
Notice I said living not good living. The new economy devistated the commercial world. Those of us making well into the six figures saw our incomes drop 50-70%. For some of us we still make a good living but for most they are out of business or working a part time job. I'm not trying to be pompous here, its just a fact of life. Most studios just limped along in the good times and when the bad came it put them under.
I'm fortunate that I'm still in business and seeing a little growth again. I had several great clients go bankrupt. I had others simply pull back and try to shoot their own work. This is the group now coming back with an understanding it takes more than a camera to be a photographer. New business is hard to come by. I had a rep out for a year selling and only turned up one good client.
The dynamic of business has changed. Inexpensive DSLR's and enthusiasts have bled the photo industry to death. Not so much the commercial but the wedding and portrait and commercial to a lesser degree. I have two physician friends that love photography and one other friend. They shoot kids sports for fun and either sell prints very cheap to the parents or give them away. This takes the work away from those that once made a living at it. A good friend and past employ of mine is now working at Lowes because of this.
Its happening to the commercial world too. Good enough is good enough.
My wife and I were out to dinner and a drink last Friday evening. Sitting in the bar three women were sitting at the bar. One a librarian the others I'm not certain. All three were talking when the conversation became where they went to school and their degrees. The librarians husband came in and sat down and the conversation evolved to what they do for a living. The short of it was two out of the four saw themselves as commercial photographers shooting little jobs on the side from their regular jobs.
My point, you may shoot a little job here or there but that doesn't make you a photographer. You might think you're making great bucks at $50/hour but you're not factoring in expenses like insurance, automotive, repairs, equipment and most pay no taxes. it's all under the table.
I deviated from topic a little but I agree 100% with the article.
Richard G
Mentor
One of the great things about young people is that they won't listen to advice. Nor should they necessarily. It isn't the meek that inherit the earth, it's the young. I see my students processing what I say. They make up their own minds. I could dismiss this as them having to make their own mistakes. I think it's deeper than that. You have to give them something, expecting nothing in return, even though the returns are there.
Roger's comments in this thread come across as harsh at first and second reading, but he is onto something. Humility and an acknowledgement of your own fallibility are very important in teaching.
Roger's comments in this thread come across as harsh at first and second reading, but he is onto something. Humility and an acknowledgement of your own fallibility are very important in teaching.
x-ray
Mentor
I think the difference is where we view the photographic world from. You work in a sheltered academic world where students are there because they have no experience as a professional and want to prepare themselves for that. They don't know the realities of the business. It's just a part of youth.
I work in the business world and reality. I deal with the cut throat daily butt kissing business world. There's so much more to being a professional than just making lovely photos and keeping the books. Really a photo business isn't that different than having any other business. So much of it is personality and the ability to deliver a product on demand. When I say personality I refer to the collective personality of the business not just the business owners personality. It's little things like making the AD comfortable. One AD that I worked for had me keep a bottle of vodka in the film refrigerator for him. He would leave his office and come to the studio to unwind whether he had a job with me or not. I would even cover for him if he was off doing personal things and his office called. This is business personality they don't teach in school.
I am the only long time professional photographer that I know within my circle of professional friends that still shoots for personal pleasure outside of work. All of my friends are totally burned out with photography. I think I'm the rare one that loves every aspect of making an image even after forty five years of business. I can't say I love business but I do love photography.
I work in the business world and reality. I deal with the cut throat daily butt kissing business world. There's so much more to being a professional than just making lovely photos and keeping the books. Really a photo business isn't that different than having any other business. So much of it is personality and the ability to deliver a product on demand. When I say personality I refer to the collective personality of the business not just the business owners personality. It's little things like making the AD comfortable. One AD that I worked for had me keep a bottle of vodka in the film refrigerator for him. He would leave his office and come to the studio to unwind whether he had a job with me or not. I would even cover for him if he was off doing personal things and his office called. This is business personality they don't teach in school.
I am the only long time professional photographer that I know within my circle of professional friends that still shoots for personal pleasure outside of work. All of my friends are totally burned out with photography. I think I'm the rare one that loves every aspect of making an image even after forty five years of business. I can't say I love business but I do love photography.
JohnTF
Mentor
It may well be like a car, you can give it a push to get it started, where it is driven is not up to you.
I recall simple things such as a school club, some of the ones I was in produced photographers with substantial photographic careers. Some of the ones I ran also produced photographers with substantial careers, though the intent was rather not defined, the interested ones took it to heart.
One of my early club colleagues found me sitting on the grass in front of the offices of the university newspaper and yearbook. I had been photo editor of both the previous year, which had been eventful. I had not seen Abe in about ten years, he was a lot taller, and he said he was interested in photography, having finished a Masters at Northwestern in other fields. Someone on campus had referred him to me.
I sent him up to the office, my colleague gave him a camera, his first roll was good.
While hanging about and shooting, he met Minor White at a campus symposium, who looked at his work, invited him to study in NY.
I believe he had an exhibit at Photokina this year, and a very successful career so far.
I have not seen him since, hope that push start had something to do with it all, and also the club from our early teens. Am pretty sure working with Minor had something to do with it all.
First, he had it in him, and second, he had the push to run with it.
You can't always teach that, but you can perhaps provide a spark for the flame?
It is not exactly Modus Ponens, I did like 4 and 17. Abe started in Cleveland, moved to NY.
Regards, John
I recall simple things such as a school club, some of the ones I was in produced photographers with substantial photographic careers. Some of the ones I ran also produced photographers with substantial careers, though the intent was rather not defined, the interested ones took it to heart.
One of my early club colleagues found me sitting on the grass in front of the offices of the university newspaper and yearbook. I had been photo editor of both the previous year, which had been eventful. I had not seen Abe in about ten years, he was a lot taller, and he said he was interested in photography, having finished a Masters at Northwestern in other fields. Someone on campus had referred him to me.
I sent him up to the office, my colleague gave him a camera, his first roll was good.
While hanging about and shooting, he met Minor White at a campus symposium, who looked at his work, invited him to study in NY.
I believe he had an exhibit at Photokina this year, and a very successful career so far.
I have not seen him since, hope that push start had something to do with it all, and also the club from our early teens. Am pretty sure working with Minor had something to do with it all.
First, he had it in him, and second, he had the push to run with it.
You can't always teach that, but you can perhaps provide a spark for the flame?
It is not exactly Modus Ponens, I did like 4 and 17. Abe started in Cleveland, moved to NY.
Regards, John