furcafe
Mentor
Anyone using their A7 or A7R for street & documentary work using manual focus glass (legacy RF, SLR)? I'm going to rent 1 to see how the combo compares to using an old school manual focus SLR & was wondering if others wanted to share their opinion(s). My only comparable experience is using old SLR lenses on the Fuji X-Pro1 in EVF mode & Leica M 240 + VF2, & both of them have been less than ideal.
Thanks in advance, Chris
Thanks in advance, Chris
YYV_146
Well-known
The A7's EVF will be better than both by a wide margin. The A7r will have more shutter lag because of the physical front curtain, but other than that the two cameras are the same.
I do all of my work with E mount cameras and adapted, manual lenses. Check out my 500px gallery if you want some examples. The experience will of course be very different from a RF, but can be enjoyable once you master the technique.
I do all of my work with E mount cameras and adapted, manual lenses. Check out my 500px gallery if you want some examples. The experience will of course be very different from a RF, but can be enjoyable once you master the technique.
furcafe
Mentor
Thanks. RFs will always be my primary cameras, but I want to try these new mirrorless systems as a digital version of my Nikon F/F2 or Zeiss Ikon Contarex for longer focal lengths/occasional macro/closeups. My experience w/using DSLRs like my D700 using manual focus has been lackluster & they can't take my collection of weird & wonderful RF & defunct SLR lenses.
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cz23
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I tried an A7 and returned it. It felt like a clumsy, unrefined rig to me and I really didn't enjoy using it. I used a Voigtlander 25 and C/Y 50. I much prefer the 25 on the X Pro with OVF and zone focusing, and the XF 35 with AF.
BTW, I also definitely prefer the B&W output of the Fuji over the Sony. Obviously the Sony wins on resolution, but the Fuji tonality, richness, and especially the upper gray tones are much more pleasing to my eye.
John
BTW, I also definitely prefer the B&W output of the Fuji over the Sony. Obviously the Sony wins on resolution, but the Fuji tonality, richness, and especially the upper gray tones are much more pleasing to my eye.
John
furcafe
Mentor
Thanks. Was it the ergonomics of the body & lens combo, the EVF, or something else (all of the above) that you didn't like?
I can use the X-Pro1 EVF & M 240 + VF2 for slow, studio-type work, but the EVFs on both are too jittery for me to try on the street.
I can use the X-Pro1 EVF & M 240 + VF2 for slow, studio-type work, but the EVFs on both are too jittery for me to try on the street.
Godfrey
somewhat colored
That's pretty much what I bought the A7 to be: a "one-body-fits-all" digital surrogate for my old favorite compact 35mm SLR (the Nikon FM) that could be used with my prized Leica R and Nikkor lenses.
The A7 has an excellent sensor and a very good viewfinder (much better than using any optical SLR without an auto-diaphragm mechanism to me). Ergonomically and with respect to sophistication in feel, it is a clunky thing for sure. But it has just enough customizability that I am happy with how it works now and the control locations work fine. Using adapted lenses, you have good manual and Aperture priority metering, good focusing aids (magnification and peaking), etc. The A7 body has electronic first curtain shutter, which does reduce the clatter and noise a bit.
I've found the A7 sensor is a superb match to most Leica R and Nikkor lenses, a less perfect match to most shorter-focal length RF lenses. Out of my 10 RF lenses, the three (maybe four) that work well are the M-Rokkor 40/2, M-Rokkor 90/4, Hektor-M 135/4.5, and (still a Q mark for me) Nokton 50mm f/1.5 ASPH (LTM). It does not work particularly well with my Color-Skopars (21, 28, 35) except for B&W due to color shifting and corner issues. (CornerFix can take care of a lot of the issues, but the A7 does smear with some of my lenses and that's not really fixable.)
I've made quite a lot of photos now, with lenses from 18mm to 180mm, and I'm satisfied with the A7 to use this way. Normally, I leave the Novoflex NEX/LER adapter on it and treat the camera as if it were made for Leica R lenses. A kit of three or four lenses, plus body, spare batteries, spare cards, and charger, works for me as a carry around in a Think Tank Photo "Mirrorless Mover 30i" bag.
G
cz23
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Definitely the SLR-style body didn't agree with me. And the VF in the center. But there was more; it just didn't feel nimble and graceful like a street camera should. The EVF is good and, of course, the file quality. But I could not get past the rest, despite ordering it twice. And this is from someone who really enjoys the Nex 7. Sorry I can't explain my reservations better.
I've had the X Pro for a short time but agree about the EVF for street. For legacy lenses that means zone-focused wides with the OVF. Which I find a real pleasure.
John
Leica0Series
Well-known
Chris, I would let you borrow mine if I hadn't already sold it on this forum ... it is a fine camera and actually worked well with most of my Leica lenses, but the manual focusing was a bit of a pain. Peaking was fast and easy but not very accurate, so to really focus it well you have to "double tap" one of the function buttons to get a blown-up focusing area, which slowed me down sometimes. It does work, but would be much better if the magnification could be activated with a single button push.
YYV_146
Well-known
One workaround would be assigning two buttons to magnification and double tap using two fingers. It is annoying, but I sort of appreciate not missing shots because I had moved the frame previously...
YYV_146
Well-known
The EVF is certainly easier to focus, unless you have a screen on the D700. I could see someone working with an attached OVF, but for big/heavy lenses the ergonomics of the A7 makes plenty of sense.
Nikon lenses may not have aperture control if there is no aperture ring on the lens, Contarex should be fine - I briefly contemplated a 85mm F1.2 for the occasional dreamy shot, but decided that it was too much of a collector's item.
There will be a learning curve involved - for awhile it might seem that scale focusing through the RF window is easier, but once you get used to looking for peaking spots (pupil, hair, buttons, printed letters) then you won't have to dive into the magnification view much at all.
bwcolor
Mentor
Zone focus with my 24mm Canon FD works nicely, but this is a new focal length to me. RF focusing takes time to master, but it is not subject to the same focusing errors as the aperture dependant focus peaking. I find focus peaking to be pretty accurate if I focus wide open and then stop down. Of course, I'm not talking ultra fast lenses. If you want to work fast then zone focus, or use native lenses.
furcafe
Mentor
Yeah, Aziz briefly had an A7R, too, but returned it before I could borrow it. 
Frank Day still has his & has offered to lend it, but I decided it was easier just to rent an A7, which is the model I'm more likely to use, anyway. Might borrow his Novoflex Leica-Sony adapter, though.
I guess I'll find out soon enough if I can make the focus work for me.
Frank Day still has his & has offered to lend it, but I decided it was easier just to rent an A7, which is the model I'm more likely to use, anyway. Might borrow his Novoflex Leica-Sony adapter, though.I guess I'll find out soon enough if I can make the focus work for me.
furcafe
Mentor
Even w/an old school focusing screen installed, I can't see the D700 or most dSLRs as coming close to an F2 or F3 for manual focusing. They're simply not designed to be used for manual focus. A D3 or D4 w/the right focus screen might come closer, but they're overkill for my needs & are limited to Nikon glass.
[BTW, you may be confusing the Contarex w/the old Yashica/Contax. Contarex lenses never had aperture rings (they were weirdly ahead of their time in that "feature") & there was only a super-rare 85/1.4 Planar offered at the very end of the system's life, not an 85/1.2. The 85/1.4 was later re-purposed for the Yashica/Contax mount after they replaced Zeiss Ikon as the official 35mm camera platform for Carl Zeiss optics.]
My plan is to focus the A7 like I do a Rolleiflex, i.e., initial rough focus using visual sharpness (only now w/addition of focus peaking), then fine focus if needed using magnification. Not nearly as fast as binary RF focus for me, but doable (I hope).
[BTW, you may be confusing the Contarex w/the old Yashica/Contax. Contarex lenses never had aperture rings (they were weirdly ahead of their time in that "feature") & there was only a super-rare 85/1.4 Planar offered at the very end of the system's life, not an 85/1.2. The 85/1.4 was later re-purposed for the Yashica/Contax mount after they replaced Zeiss Ikon as the official 35mm camera platform for Carl Zeiss optics.]
My plan is to focus the A7 like I do a Rolleiflex, i.e., initial rough focus using visual sharpness (only now w/addition of focus peaking), then fine focus if needed using magnification. Not nearly as fast as binary RF focus for me, but doable (I hope).
furcafe
Mentor
Thanks. I do seem to be in a similar position to you, only substitute Zeiss Ikon Contarex for Leica R. As I've mentioned before, I'm not concerned w/using my Leica-mount wides on the A7, so that eliminates pretty much all of the known problematic lenses. I do have a lot of vintage LTM, Contax RF, Nikon RF, etc. lenses (most 50mm & longer) that work fine on film but aren't calibrated to the M 240 or have focus shift issues; they may see some use on the A7.
YYV_146
Well-known
The trick is to guage where the exact focus is by looking at the size of the peaking area (how much is indicated at both sides of a single plane). It's a bit difficult, though, and will definitely take a bit of practice.
bwcolor
Mentor
I've been using focus peaking since the NEX-7 arrived and I still find it a challenge in the bright sun with the lens stopped down. If peaking is set to low, I can't see the peaking. If high, it isn't very accurate. If stopped down, the peaking area is increased in depth. That is why so many people use magnification, which is really pretty fast once you get use to the double tap, but all this is a bit complicated by my use of transition glasses, which darken the EVF in the sun.
YYV_146
Well-known
Ah, sorry. I was thinking about Contax. The 85mm F1.2 is the 60th anniversary limited edition lenses, and outperforms modern super-fast 85mm designs.
That would be what I'm doing. Below F4 I usually just scale focus, and I focus wide open and then stop down between wide open and F4.
Godfrey
somewhat colored
I find the much ballyhooed focus peaking is no panacea. I hardly use it.
Focus magnification, however, is superb, quick, and sure. I have it mapped to the AF/MF button .. Click-click and I'm at 5.7x, click again for 11x. Tap the shutter release and it cancels. Easy, fast, sure.
Focus peaking is at best useful to get a quick, coarse focus adjustment in place. Sometimes that's all you need, but only rarely. It's much more useful in video work, where absolute critical focus is much less important and speed takes precedence.
G
cz23
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The other thing about peaking, in my view, is that it takes over your viewfinder and distracts from what you are seeing. You can use the low setting, but often it's not enough. Use more and the peaking intrudes on the scene and blocks fine detail of your subject, such as expressions and gestures.
I agree that magnification is better, but for fast street work neither works particularly well. I find zone focusing or a good AF system to be much better. If I still had an A7, that's the direction I would take for street shooting.
The X-Pro has pretty slow AF, but I think it's still faster than what I could do with manual lenses and peaking or magnification
John
I agree that magnification is better, but for fast street work neither works particularly well. I find zone focusing or a good AF system to be much better. If I still had an A7, that's the direction I would take for street shooting.
The X-Pro has pretty slow AF, but I think it's still faster than what I could do with manual lenses and peaking or magnification
John
zleica
Established
When I first purchase the A7r, I wanted to use it on all the lenses that I have for Leica M, Contax G, and Leica R. But after I have the camera for over 5 months, I find myself use the native FE 35/55 increasingly more. I found that for street and documentary, A7/r with MF lens is workable solution but a great compromise in terms operation and focus. This is especially true for me as a rangerfinder user. I am much more comfortable and efficient with a Leica M/M9 than A7r with MF lenses. But with native FE lens, I find the package is very efficient with very accurate and reliable focus. This is not what OP asked, but I just want to share my thoughts and experience here.