Pepe
Established
Well I started developing my own film this year, and now I'm the proud owner of an enlarger and the peripherals, as well as a library with books from half a century.
Theoretically, I'm set.
So after work today or tomorrow, I'm picking up some multigrade developer, Amaloco odourless stop, and some MGIV RC paper....
Now for the questions I can't find answers to.
If I get Amaloco 1001 (warmtone developer), will it affect the "normal" Ilford mcIV paper or not at all ? (I don't want to buy the more expensive papers yet untill I've got some basic skills, I expect to ruin at least half of the box....) Or should I just start with the MG developer ?
Are there any other things I should know that aren't usually mentioned in the average books ? ( like metering systems in standard photography books, check on it, they all just say 'use centerweight', almost none say why )
What size should I start with ? Should I go for 8x10 immediately or learn the skills on smaller ( cheaper ) sizes ? My masking frame is a fixed 8x10, I'm still looking for an easel with variable frame.
( as for taking a course : I hate courses, I have to take enough as it is as an accountant. This is a hobby, I do not want the restrictions and obligations that come with lessons, even if it means the road will be harder, longer and full of failures. )
thanks in advance.
Theoretically, I'm set.
So after work today or tomorrow, I'm picking up some multigrade developer, Amaloco odourless stop, and some MGIV RC paper....
Now for the questions I can't find answers to.
If I get Amaloco 1001 (warmtone developer), will it affect the "normal" Ilford mcIV paper or not at all ? (I don't want to buy the more expensive papers yet untill I've got some basic skills, I expect to ruin at least half of the box....) Or should I just start with the MG developer ?
Are there any other things I should know that aren't usually mentioned in the average books ? ( like metering systems in standard photography books, check on it, they all just say 'use centerweight', almost none say why )
What size should I start with ? Should I go for 8x10 immediately or learn the skills on smaller ( cheaper ) sizes ? My masking frame is a fixed 8x10, I'm still looking for an easel with variable frame.
( as for taking a course : I hate courses, I have to take enough as it is as an accountant. This is a hobby, I do not want the restrictions and obligations that come with lessons, even if it means the road will be harder, longer and full of failures. )
thanks in advance.
Tim Gray
Well-known
I got David Vestal's The Craft of Photography. Out of print, but cheap used on Amazon. I think it's a good starting place. He has some good tips on how to use test strips, etc, that make a lot of sense.
I'd start off with the regular multigrade developer. 8x10 is fine too. I really didn't waste that many sheets before I had prints that looked ok. I would highly recommend some speed easels. I got a couple made by Ganz (speed ez-el) and they are really great for normal prints on 8x10 or 5x7. Much better than the horrible multisized crap that came free with my darkroom setup. I plan on getting a nice easel at some point, but for the prints I've been doing, that's money that doesn't need to be spent right now.
I'd start off with the regular multigrade developer. 8x10 is fine too. I really didn't waste that many sheets before I had prints that looked ok. I would highly recommend some speed easels. I got a couple made by Ganz (speed ez-el) and they are really great for normal prints on 8x10 or 5x7. Much better than the horrible multisized crap that came free with my darkroom setup. I plan on getting a nice easel at some point, but for the prints I've been doing, that's money that doesn't need to be spent right now.
40oz
...
If you don't already have them, you need multigrade filters. Multigrade paper is designed for use with the filters.
As far as why to use center-weighted metering, IMHO it is becasue when you meter off your subject with a camera that uses an averaging center-weighted meter, you stand the best chance of getting the best exposure for the chosen scene. It will mostly ignore the sky at the top of the frame, or lights of to the side, black pavement at the bottom, etc. CEnter-weighted means it adjusts the basic exposure for the subject in thecenter according to the surrounding light. This means you swon't be exposing just for the subject, but also to capture the surrounding areas as well. Translating into fewer blown-out skys and inky black shadows, with the trade-off of slightly over-exposed or under-exposed subjects.
Basically, any metering system requires the user to get accustomed to its use, but center-weighted systems are the most straightforward, IMHO. You can generally point the camera at a scene, adjust exposure according to the meter, and shoot away. Spot metering requires a bit more thought as to what you are metering.
As an example, using my spot metering CL, I took a variety of shots of my friends in front of the Alamo on a sunny afternoon. The people in front of the building (in soft shadow) are rather under-exposed, while the bright white facade of the Alamo (iin full sunlight) is captured without blowing out. I don't know that it would have been possible to get a good exposure of my friends without losing the Alamo's facade in that situation, but a center-weighted meter might have been more adept at making a compromise between the bright white facade and the shadowed areas in front.
All that said, it doesn't really mater what metering sytem you use as long as you kow how to use it.
As far as why to use center-weighted metering, IMHO it is becasue when you meter off your subject with a camera that uses an averaging center-weighted meter, you stand the best chance of getting the best exposure for the chosen scene. It will mostly ignore the sky at the top of the frame, or lights of to the side, black pavement at the bottom, etc. CEnter-weighted means it adjusts the basic exposure for the subject in thecenter according to the surrounding light. This means you swon't be exposing just for the subject, but also to capture the surrounding areas as well. Translating into fewer blown-out skys and inky black shadows, with the trade-off of slightly over-exposed or under-exposed subjects.
Basically, any metering system requires the user to get accustomed to its use, but center-weighted systems are the most straightforward, IMHO. You can generally point the camera at a scene, adjust exposure according to the meter, and shoot away. Spot metering requires a bit more thought as to what you are metering.
As an example, using my spot metering CL, I took a variety of shots of my friends in front of the Alamo on a sunny afternoon. The people in front of the building (in soft shadow) are rather under-exposed, while the bright white facade of the Alamo (iin full sunlight) is captured without blowing out. I don't know that it would have been possible to get a good exposure of my friends without losing the Alamo's facade in that situation, but a center-weighted meter might have been more adept at making a compromise between the bright white facade and the shadowed areas in front.
All that said, it doesn't really mater what metering sytem you use as long as you kow how to use it.
Pepe
Established
it was an example, I know very well what they do, so sorry to make you type all that 
The problems with it are with all the Matrix-systems out there where the camera runs some "magic" algorithm to decide what is the subject. This kind of makes it impossible to use compensation, because you don't know where it put the average... as you do with centerweight or spot.
But that's digressing.
Yeah I got an ilford set of filters with the enlarger (simple Durst F30, but I'm not pumping money into a serious one yet), a focus finder, 8x10 masking frame, 60-second enlarger timer and two lenses ( one with dust in it, one clean 50 3.5 ) as well as a "test negative"
After a bit of multilingual research it seems the consensus online is : don't bother with warm-cooltone developers for RC multigrade papers, there is no effect.
So Amaloco 6006 or ilford multigrade it will be, wichever is cheaper
The problems with it are with all the Matrix-systems out there where the camera runs some "magic" algorithm to decide what is the subject. This kind of makes it impossible to use compensation, because you don't know where it put the average... as you do with centerweight or spot.
But that's digressing.
Yeah I got an ilford set of filters with the enlarger (simple Durst F30, but I'm not pumping money into a serious one yet), a focus finder, 8x10 masking frame, 60-second enlarger timer and two lenses ( one with dust in it, one clean 50 3.5 ) as well as a "test negative"
After a bit of multilingual research it seems the consensus online is : don't bother with warm-cooltone developers for RC multigrade papers, there is no effect.
So Amaloco 6006 or ilford multigrade it will be, wichever is cheaper
BillBingham2
Registered User
Pick up a grain focuser for your darkroom. Hypo-clearing agent is a must for printing (IMHO) as it saves water and time in washing. You may want to look around for a good enlarging lens, they are cheap these days. I found El Nikkors to be worth the money when I bought them new years ago. A 50mm/2.8 was my favorite for most stuff, bright and easy to focus, sharp across the field.
B2 (;->
B2 (;->
Pepe
Established
HCA : does it affect RC paper enough to bother ?
Washing decently is the only big problem left. I'll have to do it in the basement, and I don't have runnimg water there. I was thinking using a large tray with water ( add HCA perhaps ) for a "quick rinse" and then moving them upstairs to wash them somewhere else. Doing this would obviously suck .
Washing decently is the only big problem left. I'll have to do it in the basement, and I don't have runnimg water there. I was thinking using a large tray with water ( add HCA perhaps ) for a "quick rinse" and then moving them upstairs to wash them somewhere else. Doing this would obviously suck .
40oz
...
^ I do that in my kitchen print lab ( ). You might use two tubs of water. Rinse in one, then put in the other while you print 3 or 4 prints, then run them all upstairs. You probably don't want to leave them in the water more than 15 minutes, but I've never had any problems rinsing RC paper so far. They will probably be clean of fixer by the time you get upstairs anyway.
I'm hardly an old hand at printing, but I found it far easier than expected, even when you don't read instructions and just go by the seat of your pants. Of course, reading instructions after the fact can be educational
). You might use two tubs of water. Rinse in one, then put in the other while you print 3 or 4 prints, then run them all upstairs. You probably don't want to leave them in the water more than 15 minutes, but I've never had any problems rinsing RC paper so far. They will probably be clean of fixer by the time you get upstairs anyway.I'm hardly an old hand at printing, but I found it far easier than expected, even when you don't read instructions and just go by the seat of your pants. Of course, reading instructions after the fact can be educational
Wayne R. Scott
Half fast Leica User
Pepe said:
1.) I am assuming that you are using trays for your developing, stop, fix, and water rinse. What I did was duct tape a 4' length of 1/4" PVC pipe on the counter top so that it was under the middle of the trays. This allows me to see-saw or teeter-totter the tray easily to allow even development of the print by keeping the chemicals moving slowly so that fresh developer is in contact with the print. If you are using tanks and a roller system---Never Mind.
2.) I use a digital timer from the kitchen section of the discount store to time my development. I have used a metronome to count in the dark.
3.) A rubber floor mat to stand upon will ease the strain on your legs if you are doing marathon printing sessions.
4.) Make sure you have plenty of cd's for your stereo system, so that you can listen to music while you work.
5.) Use a day light balanced bulb in a goose-necked clamp on style over your rinse tray to evaluate your finished print, but beware of the dry-down effect. Your print will look different after it has dried than when it is wet fresh from the rinse tray.
6.) Make sure you have a large trash can handy
Wayne
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Pepe
Established
Went out and since my pocket only held 100 EUR, I got a box of peal 13x18cm (5x7inch) multigrade to start with. Add four trays, tongs, ilford MG dev. and Amaloco stop.
Now the box says use light brown safelights. I have red ones inherited from the previous owner of my enlarger. Will I need to buy new bulbs ? ( bare colored bulbs, not the color-filtered light-box type )
( yes I will do a test with a single sheet of course, but I'd rather not ruin a page for no reason if asking will tell me enough )
Now the box says use light brown safelights. I have red ones inherited from the previous owner of my enlarger. Will I need to buy new bulbs ? ( bare colored bulbs, not the color-filtered light-box type )
( yes I will do a test with a single sheet of course, but I'd rather not ruin a page for no reason if asking will tell me enough )
Tim Gray
Well-known
I use a red safelight. Some LED bulb that I bought online on a recommendation over at APUG. Red makes it a little harder to see in the room, but should be safe for most if not all papers. Red should be "safer" than other bulb types.
Pepe
Established
Finally got round to doing it.
Three prints. Son, wife, and some lions at the zoo.
The first one look as good as I dared expect first time through, on the lions I made a contrast mistake, came out grey as hell with no white anywhere...
By the way, my multigrade filters go 1 through 7, but I don't have the calculator.. How do those numbers compare to the paper grades ?
My developer (and everything else) temperature dropped to 12°C over time, but that seemed to make no difference. What would the effect be ?
Oh and comedy option : mistakes made.... Handled paper with all lights on (cut into strips for exposure tests), forgot to stop down lens (fifteen seconds at 3,5 make a very nice black), found myself holding the developer tong in the stop.
Perhaps I shouldn't be doing stuff like this for the first time at eleven PM....
Three prints. Son, wife, and some lions at the zoo.
The first one look as good as I dared expect first time through, on the lions I made a contrast mistake, came out grey as hell with no white anywhere...
By the way, my multigrade filters go 1 through 7, but I don't have the calculator.. How do those numbers compare to the paper grades ?
My developer (and everything else) temperature dropped to 12°C over time, but that seemed to make no difference. What would the effect be ?
Oh and comedy option : mistakes made.... Handled paper with all lights on (cut into strips for exposure tests), forgot to stop down lens (fifteen seconds at 3,5 make a very nice black), found myself holding the developer tong in the stop.
Perhaps I shouldn't be doing stuff like this for the first time at eleven PM....
350D_user
B+W film devotee
Being a beginner myself, I'd say that development times would be longer. But as you see the print develop anyway, I'd guess that isn't much of a problem.Pepe said:
Easily done. My second venture into the darkroom found me being puzzled by a print that wasn't showing anything after 2 minutes in the developer tray.Pepe said:
I realised I'd done the exposure with the enlargers built-in safelight in place.
But, if you never make mistakes, you don't learn.
canonetc
canonetc
1) Make sure your darkroom is WELL VENTILATED. Fixer fumes can make you real sick real fast. Take a break every twenty minutes if possible.
2) LABEL your negative protector sheet by SUBJECT, PLACE and DATE.
3) Clean your enlarging head from time to time (its easy to forget).
4) Have 1-2 extra safelight bulbs in stock, and also enlarger bulbs. It sucks when your enlarger bulb burns out, and its 1am!
5) No-Scratch is a great little chemical to have if you scratch your negs. Works wonders. Coat both sides of the neg, insert into carrier, print. When done, wash carefully in warm water until all petroleum residue is gone. Hang dry.
6) Fixer Test is good too. Two drops in two ounces of your fix and you will know if your film/paper fixer is good or bad.
7) Buy BW 35mm roll-film in 100' lengths and load your own film. You can save almost $2.00 per roll. Ilford Hp5 is better than Delta, IMHO.
8) Buy a Dodging Kit.
9) Invest in good lenses for your enlarger. Schneider or Nikkormat are nice.
10) Invest in an enlarger that allows you to print from 35mm up to 4x5.
11) Rinse and dry your hands often.
12) Drink lots of water.
13) Keep a logbook for printing; ie., how you made your final "master" print. F/stop, print size, time, dodging/burning times, etc. Date each entry. Why do the work twice?
13) Enjoy the process.
Chris
canonetc
2) LABEL your negative protector sheet by SUBJECT, PLACE and DATE.
3) Clean your enlarging head from time to time (its easy to forget).
4) Have 1-2 extra safelight bulbs in stock, and also enlarger bulbs. It sucks when your enlarger bulb burns out, and its 1am!
5) No-Scratch is a great little chemical to have if you scratch your negs. Works wonders. Coat both sides of the neg, insert into carrier, print. When done, wash carefully in warm water until all petroleum residue is gone. Hang dry.
6) Fixer Test is good too. Two drops in two ounces of your fix and you will know if your film/paper fixer is good or bad.
7) Buy BW 35mm roll-film in 100' lengths and load your own film. You can save almost $2.00 per roll. Ilford Hp5 is better than Delta, IMHO.
8) Buy a Dodging Kit.
9) Invest in good lenses for your enlarger. Schneider or Nikkormat are nice.
10) Invest in an enlarger that allows you to print from 35mm up to 4x5.
11) Rinse and dry your hands often.
12) Drink lots of water.
13) Keep a logbook for printing; ie., how you made your final "master" print. F/stop, print size, time, dodging/burning times, etc. Date each entry. Why do the work twice?
13) Enjoy the process.
Chris
canonetc