aizan
Mentor
So if you had a folder with an anastigmat in a Derval shutter, could you swap it for a Heliar in a Compur shutter later if you came across one? Assuming they are the same focal length and for the same film format.
Godfrey
somewhat colored
It all depends on the individual camera and lens/shutter assemblies. Most could probably be done, degree of difficulty is the kicker. There's a point after which the effort isn't warranted by the potential results.
G
aizan
Mentor
I would think the lens/shutter assemblies are the same if they were for the same camera model to keep it simple. I wish I could get my hands on some cameras to confirm, but all I’ve got are internet photos.
Is anybody here crazy enough to have gotten two of the exact same folder cameras, except they have different lenses?
Is anybody here crazy enough to have gotten two of the exact same folder cameras, except they have different lenses?
randy stewart
Established
lens/shutter swaps
lens/shutter swaps
You cannot assume such lens/shutters would be immediately interchangeable. First, assuming a good physical fit for the interchange, there may be alignment issues. A shutter release connection may not fit the replacement shutter. The speed or aperture indexes may be located as to be unreadable or hard to set. Secondly, and more subtle, the focal length marked on any lens is usually an approximation. In a manufacturing run of the "same" lens, you may get variations in focal length. These differences are measured optically and compensated for during manufacture by installing shims which space the shutter a bit forward of the mount to compensate. So, two different lenses of same marked focal length could be a couple of millimeters different from each other.
lens/shutter swaps
You cannot assume such lens/shutters would be immediately interchangeable. First, assuming a good physical fit for the interchange, there may be alignment issues. A shutter release connection may not fit the replacement shutter. The speed or aperture indexes may be located as to be unreadable or hard to set. Secondly, and more subtle, the focal length marked on any lens is usually an approximation. In a manufacturing run of the "same" lens, you may get variations in focal length. These differences are measured optically and compensated for during manufacture by installing shims which space the shutter a bit forward of the mount to compensate. So, two different lenses of same marked focal length could be a couple of millimeters different from each other.
Ko.Fe.
Lenses 35/21 Gears 46/20
I never tried this. Focal length has to match the length of the bellows. At least.
With some simple folders I didn't shimmed anything, but made new stop for the bellows.
With some simple folders I didn't shimmed anything, but made new stop for the bellows.
Phil_F_NM
Camera hacker
If you have similar focal length lenses, go for it. You'll have to get a groundglass to optically confirm both infinity as well as alignment of the lens to the focal plane but it can certainly be done. You'll almost certainly have to make a fine adjustment depending upon the ctual focal length of your lens to your film plane. It's easier to add shims than it is to make that lens sit closer to the focal plane though, just in case you're in love with using a certain body for this project.
If you have a coupled rangefinder on this thing, I wouldn't do it just because of the aforementioned headache then having to calibrate the focusing system to the lens.
Phil Forrest
If you have a coupled rangefinder on this thing, I wouldn't do it just because of the aforementioned headache then having to calibrate the focusing system to the lens.
Phil Forrest
aizan
Mentor
So as of this evening, I've got a 6x9 Voigtländer Rollfilm with an 11.4cm f/4.5 Anastigmat Skopar in a dial-set Compur on the way. I'll keep an eye out for a Heliar and let you know if it fits or not!
markus_h_photography
Established
I have 2 Voigtlander Perkeos. I'm sure they have different lens / shutter combos. Won't be home for a few days to do a side by side tho.
charjohncarter
Mentor
I'm not sure about all cameras, but I had a shutter go bad on my First Six camera. And I put a German Pronto shutter in it and the lens fit perfectly. So it is possible, but I'm sure you would have to check your specific camera, lens, and shutter.
So why would I do that? I did it because the lens is a wonderfully flawed lens. I just couldn't part with it.
Kodak Portra 160 NC by John Carter, on Flickr
So why would I do that? I did it because the lens is a wonderfully flawed lens. I just couldn't part with it.
Kodak Portra 160 NC by John Carter, on FlickrPedro_fiz
Established
Another case:
I have a Bessa RF with a Voigtlander Skopar 105 f3.5 in compur-rapid shutter. I think It should be possible to screw in the compur-rapid the front and rear groups from a Voigtlander Heliar 105 f3.5 (in this case the Heliar is mounted in a compur shutter).
Any experience or suggestion?
Best regards
I have a Bessa RF with a Voigtlander Skopar 105 f3.5 in compur-rapid shutter. I think It should be possible to screw in the compur-rapid the front and rear groups from a Voigtlander Heliar 105 f3.5 (in this case the Heliar is mounted in a compur shutter).
Any experience or suggestion?
Best regards
randy stewart
Established
Lens swap
Lens swap
Years ago I bought a Graflex XL with set of the better system lenses. The short version is that I couldn't get the lenses to properly register with the rangefinder. After spending too much money on "expert" repairs without solution, my research disclosed that a prior owner had dismounted the lenses from their barrels, used them (?), and later reassembled but had lost the factory shims installed to zero in each lens for its unique focal length variation. I ended up dismounting the lenses for a medium format view camera and selling off the rest of the XL hardware. From my experience, I'd suggest that this is not likely to be a cost effective or happy undertaking. That said, I have my own lens swap goal: to swap the Tessar copy lens of a Ciroflex F for the lens in an Ansco Automatic Reflex, Any cheap parts Ciro Fs out there?
Lens swap
Years ago I bought a Graflex XL with set of the better system lenses. The short version is that I couldn't get the lenses to properly register with the rangefinder. After spending too much money on "expert" repairs without solution, my research disclosed that a prior owner had dismounted the lenses from their barrels, used them (?), and later reassembled but had lost the factory shims installed to zero in each lens for its unique focal length variation. I ended up dismounting the lenses for a medium format view camera and selling off the rest of the XL hardware. From my experience, I'd suggest that this is not likely to be a cost effective or happy undertaking. That said, I have my own lens swap goal: to swap the Tessar copy lens of a Ciroflex F for the lens in an Ansco Automatic Reflex, Any cheap parts Ciro Fs out there?
Scrambler
Well-known
Weird that I can say this, but it is doable and I have done it.
You need to get the new lens set for the length. As has been said, this is ensuring that if its a 76mm lens replacing a 75.5mm lens (both marked as 75mm) that you have it set up right. Ground glass focusing: generally not too hard if you use cellotape or similar. Use shims. They hold the shutter forward of the mount.
I used a lens with front cell focussing as the replacement: so I simply set the lens and held it at the correct focus.
That was a medium format folding RF camera, an Ensign 220.
View cameras are made to do this easily but any camera with a front in-lens shutter can have the lens swapped. What you can't do is correct major changes. You can't put an 80mm in place of a 75mm, or vice versa.
Always the same nominal focal length. I wouldn't get too excited regarding what camera the lens came off. I have used a lens from a 645 on a 6x6. The new lens still covered. With less over but there's no movements on a simple folder so what does that matter? And pretty much all folders use standard focal lengths so it's no biggie. You aren't trying to locate a wide-angle replacement.
Re the Skopar/Heliar swap: give it a go. If it doesn't work, put the lenses back where they came from. If it does, enjoy.
You need to get the new lens set for the length. As has been said, this is ensuring that if its a 76mm lens replacing a 75.5mm lens (both marked as 75mm) that you have it set up right. Ground glass focusing: generally not too hard if you use cellotape or similar. Use shims. They hold the shutter forward of the mount.
I used a lens with front cell focussing as the replacement: so I simply set the lens and held it at the correct focus.
That was a medium format folding RF camera, an Ensign 220.
View cameras are made to do this easily but any camera with a front in-lens shutter can have the lens swapped. What you can't do is correct major changes. You can't put an 80mm in place of a 75mm, or vice versa.
Always the same nominal focal length. I wouldn't get too excited regarding what camera the lens came off. I have used a lens from a 645 on a 6x6. The new lens still covered. With less over but there's no movements on a simple folder so what does that matter? And pretty much all folders use standard focal lengths so it's no biggie. You aren't trying to locate a wide-angle replacement.
Re the Skopar/Heliar swap: give it a go. If it doesn't work, put the lenses back where they came from. If it does, enjoy.
Ambro51
Collector/Photographer
Prewar Voigtländer Bergheil has interchangeable lenses, it’s a bayonet Mount. Great Camera BTW
BillBingham2
Registered User
Rather like taking a R mount 'Cron on a Nikon F3. Yes, you can do it, with lots of butts and cash.
Think Crown or Speed Graphic in 2 1/4 x 3 1/4 as a better platform. Perhaps a 3D printed body with different adapters might work.
B2 (;->
Think Crown or Speed Graphic in 2 1/4 x 3 1/4 as a better platform. Perhaps a 3D printed body with different adapters might work.
B2 (;->
Spavinaw
Well-known
All Kodak Tourist and Tourist II bodies and lens/shutters are interchangeable except the body and 1/800 second shutter/lens combination. They are both different.
Easy as pie to change. On the mounting plate at the front of the bellows there is a notch about 4mm wide just to the left of top center (viewed from the back). Take a knife point or something similar and push the piece of metal thats in the notch forward till it clears the notch. Now turn the lens/ shutter to the right a few millimeters and it will fall right off.
Easy as pie to change. On the mounting plate at the front of the bellows there is a notch about 4mm wide just to the left of top center (viewed from the back). Take a knife point or something similar and push the piece of metal thats in the notch forward till it clears the notch. Now turn the lens/ shutter to the right a few millimeters and it will fall right off.
Mark C
Well-known
I swapped a Skopar lens and shutter from an early Bessa onto my Bessa I that had a Vaskar in wonky shutter. For that you just need to be familiar with setting the focus scale to match the lens focus. I'm extremely happy with the results.
The Bessa RF is unit focused and rangefinder coupled so more complicated. The rangefinder on these is challenging to adjust. Mine was out so I simply shimmed my lens to match the rangefinder focus. It does not match the distance scale, but focuses very accurately with the rangefinder.
That said, my RF has the Heliar, but I prefer the Skopar for these cameras. The strengths of the Heliar are just not really relevant to me in a 6x9 folder.
oldwino
Well-known
Why is that?
zuiko85
Mentor
I’ve switched lenses on a Kodak Tourist. Both lenses were from Tourist cameras though.
Mark C
Well-known
The Skopar is noticeably sharper across the field. I think the Heliar shines for portrait and lens character shots; those are possible on the Bessa RF but not what I'd generally pick that camera for. The Skopar is fabulously well matched to the use I make of 6x9 folders.
I love the Heliar, just wouldn't go to the trouble of switching one onto this camera when it already has a great lens. An Apo Lanthar, maybe.
Pedro_fiz
Established
are the lenses and shutters on folding cameras interchangeable?
This experience is very valuable for me.
Thanks
This experience is very valuable for me.
Thanks