dcsang
Canadian & Not A Dentist
Ken.. VERY good point.
I think you've actually hit the nail on the proverbial head.
I too remember editing from contact sheets and even up to as recently as 2001 I was doing so and I would take a lot more time per image to consider it's "save-a-bility" (for the lack of the right word) than I likely do now when viewing on the screen.
I never even considered this before you brought it up but it rings true.
Dave
georgef
Well-known
I would have said the same.
The day i'm satisfied with my picture(s), i'll cease taking photograph and sell all my equipment right away.
And go fishing.
I am not sure I understand that point; are you saying that you are still photographing because you are unhappy with your work?
I personaly am still in the process of getting to where I want to be. For years I practiced taking photographs that meet the standards that make a good picture. But it was mostly bland; technically, sure, I can take pretty decent photos, but they were based on typical examples and standards already out there.
In the past year, I finally realized the "feel", the "look" I want to achieve as a photographer, and in my mind it is clear as day. Now I strive to figure out how to make that happen through the medium.
But when I get there, I am not selling my RD1; thats never going to happen
Philippe D.
Cheeeeeese
Yes, that's correct.
And here someting for the night thought:
"What is the best thing that could happen in your life?"
- To have achieved his dreams.
"What is the worse thing that could happen in your life?"
- To have achieved his dreams.
Think about it.
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chippy
foo was here
Hello Roger
lol before i begin ...you do seem to upset some folks i notice dont you Roger haha...but i tend to notice your posts from a different angle..perhaps a critical analysis of someones coments in isolation to each other rather than a overall emotional person overview that many seem to recognise (just my thoughts on occassion), ah well
of coarse i know where you are comming from here and obviously from a buisness point of view (particularly in days gone by) film was an significant overhead and not to be wasted, as time went on and auto cameras with quick/quiet motor drives, rapid fire flash and auto bracketing (not that i ever really used auto bracketing much--i was either too confident or too cheap too waste the film) came in, it was great to elimate the shots (in wedding photog) that were throw away because someone blinked! there should be a law against people blinking at weddings hehe
but what does give me pause to think is, because of digital or the relization that film is less expensive these days, is i notice there is less emphisis placed on composition with any particular shot taken...clearly there are many on RFF that are excluded from this critisiam but in general...
well i am afraid you have that over me, i am still somewhat behind (not ignorant but behind) in software and computer skills, so i am still a bit old school but i'll catch up some day
nah you know i have a couple of degrees and are reasonably well read but i havnt read a great deal on photog over the years (not by my reasoning or others anyway) which is strange considering it was my first interest and will probably be my be my last. so i havnt read Wolfe but i had a look at the synapsis and it looks appealing. hehe perhaps you think i have in common his satire, history interests or middlebrow veiws...
i couldnt agree more...although i would like to see more thought involved with composition ect instead of snapping away and one will turn out right type of thing although that can be fun in its own right, but to visulize a picture before you have taken it is optimal IMO
lol before i begin ...you do seem to upset some folks i notice dont you Roger haha...but i tend to notice your posts from a different angle..perhaps a critical analysis of someones coments in isolation to each other rather than a overall emotional person overview that many seem to recognise (just my thoughts on occassion), ah well
of coarse i know where you are comming from here and obviously from a buisness point of view (particularly in days gone by) film was an significant overhead and not to be wasted, as time went on and auto cameras with quick/quiet motor drives, rapid fire flash and auto bracketing (not that i ever really used auto bracketing much--i was either too confident or too cheap too waste the film) came in, it was great to elimate the shots (in wedding photog) that were throw away because someone blinked! there should be a law against people blinking at weddings hehe
but what does give me pause to think is, because of digital or the relization that film is less expensive these days, is i notice there is less emphisis placed on composition with any particular shot taken...clearly there are many on RFF that are excluded from this critisiam but in general...
yeah tell me about it...even tho i did it for hmm money most of the time, i think i got to the stage where i had to refuse for freinds and family because i just wanted to enjoy a wedding as a guest.
well i am afraid you have that over me, i am still somewhat behind (not ignorant but behind) in software and computer skills, so i am still a bit old school but i'll catch up some day
nah you know i have a couple of degrees and are reasonably well read but i havnt read a great deal on photog over the years (not by my reasoning or others anyway) which is strange considering it was my first interest and will probably be my be my last. so i havnt read Wolfe but i had a look at the synapsis and it looks appealing. hehe perhaps you think i have in common his satire, history interests or middlebrow veiws...
i couldnt agree more...although i would like to see more thought involved with composition ect instead of snapping away and one will turn out right type of thing although that can be fun in its own right, but to visulize a picture before you have taken it is optimal IMO
kmerenkov
Established
No I am not satisfied. And often I don't like my shots that people like (doesn't happen often).
I don't find them as outstanding as a lot of photos made by other people. In best case, there is always compositional flaw...just dull idea-less snapshots.
I don't find them as outstanding as a lot of photos made by other people. In best case, there is always compositional flaw...just dull idea-less snapshots.
Gabriel M.A.
My Red Dot Glows For You
Never satisfied.
There is a handful of photos that I'm proud of, but that doesn't satisfy me.
I'll be satisfied when I help free Tibet, reverse global warming. Ok, ok, maybe if I get the Nobel Prize.
There is a handful of photos that I'm proud of, but that doesn't satisfy me.
I'll be satisfied when I help free Tibet, reverse global warming. Ok, ok, maybe if I get the Nobel Prize.
John Robertson
Well-known
If I were satisfied I would give up taking pictures!
Sparrow
Mentor
Roger Hicks
Mentor
Dear Richard,
Sorry to have offended you. In this context, I saw no difference between 'set' and 'express'. This is more of a semantic point than anything else, and I'll cheerfully substitute 'express' for 'set' without a second thought.
On the other hand, surely everyone must have a right to challenge anyone on anything, be it definition or opinion?
What, after all, is the effective difference between 'I disagree with that statement' and 'I challenge that statement'? The only one I can see is that with 'challenge' I am not necessarily stating flat disagreement, but seeking clarification, further information, qualification... I'd therefore suggest that actually, 'challenge' is less confrontational than 'disagree'.
Of course you may disagree (or challenge the above).
Cheers,
R.
Roger Hicks
Mentor
Dear Andrew,
you do seem to upset some folks i notice dont you Roger
Well, when Garry C-W gave me the column in Amateur Photographer, part of the job description was to "rattle the readers' cages." That's probably the most valuable part of RFF for me. You may disagree with someone completely; you may think he's a complete idiot; you may know that he is a complete ignoramus, who thinks he understands something, and clearly doesn't. But regardless of all that. if it makes you think about your own views, beliefs, etc., it's useful, even if you don't change 'em as a result.
Fortunately there are rather more people who like being encouraged to think than there are who really hate me (or maybe who hate thinking).
obviously from a buisness point of view (particularly in days gone by) film was an significant overhead and not to be wasted
Yes, but what's 'waste'? As T and Richard and others have pointed out, film that's used in learning isn't wasted (even though in one sense it's a 'failure'). The same is true of film used in working towards the best image you can take. The Polaroid bills for the whole studio, in the days when I worked in advertising, were frightening -- and I was not the heaviest user. It was a standing joke that Jan wouldn't shoot until the Polaroid wrappers reached his knees.
i am still somewhat behind (not ignorant but behind) in software and computer skills
Me too. But this is 'wetware' -- the stuff in the programs between my ears. Get The Painted Word. It's not about photography, just modern art in general. Abd it's a lot funnier than Sontag.
Cheers,
R.
you do seem to upset some folks i notice dont you Roger
Well, when Garry C-W gave me the column in Amateur Photographer, part of the job description was to "rattle the readers' cages." That's probably the most valuable part of RFF for me. You may disagree with someone completely; you may think he's a complete idiot; you may know that he is a complete ignoramus, who thinks he understands something, and clearly doesn't. But regardless of all that. if it makes you think about your own views, beliefs, etc., it's useful, even if you don't change 'em as a result.
Fortunately there are rather more people who like being encouraged to think than there are who really hate me (or maybe who hate thinking).
obviously from a buisness point of view (particularly in days gone by) film was an significant overhead and not to be wasted
Yes, but what's 'waste'? As T and Richard and others have pointed out, film that's used in learning isn't wasted (even though in one sense it's a 'failure'). The same is true of film used in working towards the best image you can take. The Polaroid bills for the whole studio, in the days when I worked in advertising, were frightening -- and I was not the heaviest user. It was a standing joke that Jan wouldn't shoot until the Polaroid wrappers reached his knees.
i am still somewhat behind (not ignorant but behind) in software and computer skills
Me too. But this is 'wetware' -- the stuff in the programs between my ears. Get The Painted Word. It's not about photography, just modern art in general. Abd it's a lot funnier than Sontag.
Cheers,
R.
ClaremontPhoto
Jon Claremont
I enjoy Roger Hicks' participation here. I do much the same elsewhere, also, like Roger does very well, in a friendly and encouraging manner.
He's a man with opinions. That's good. I don't want bland. No thank you.
Recently he's also been a man who mentions brands and lifestyle associations.
We discuss bicycles and he mentions the best traditional bicycle.
We talk about off road vehicles and he's a Land Rover expert.
Tomorrow I think my local market will have large quantities of inexpensive plums suitable for chutney. If I were to buy a few kilos and raise it here surely Roger will have the definitive recipe for plum chutney. It's nothing personal, he's a product of the English public school system I suspect. Much like myself.
On the other hand, I'm looking into finding an M mount lens of about 100mm focal length with a close focus of 30cm or less. Roger will know of such a lens and will steer me in the right direction.
He's a positive figure at RFF I've never met, although I imagine him as an older Hugh Grant.
tomasis
Well-known
it is better to be dissatisfied otherwise you only waste time
tomasis
Well-known
pixtu, why have you to go further except an honest disagrement? it is a forum here after all.
Roger Hicks
Mentor
Dear Richard,
OED, b4: to call into question, dispute.
Sincerely, I was not looking for a scrap. I was looking (and am still looking) for a definition of 'success' and 'failure' that does not simply involve a restatement: 'success' = 'keeper', 'failure' = 'in bin'.
But as this has upset some people, there seems little advantage in continuing to seek clarification.
Incidentally, I don't have a Ph.D. The only people who habitually address me as Dr. Hicks are from SUNY (State University of New York). Why they do this, I don't know, the more so as I have tried to correct their misapprehension; but I've always found it rather flattering.
Cheers,
R.
OED, b4: to call into question, dispute.
Sincerely, I was not looking for a scrap. I was looking (and am still looking) for a definition of 'success' and 'failure' that does not simply involve a restatement: 'success' = 'keeper', 'failure' = 'in bin'.
But as this has upset some people, there seems little advantage in continuing to seek clarification.
Incidentally, I don't have a Ph.D. The only people who habitually address me as Dr. Hicks are from SUNY (State University of New York). Why they do this, I don't know, the more so as I have tried to correct their misapprehension; but I've always found it rather flattering.
Cheers,
R.
monochromejrnl
Well-known
i also think that i prefer to edit shots from a contact sheet because the images are smaller and it allows me to focus more on forms and compositional success or failure... i'm less distracted by sharpness/bluriness, blown highlights/blocked up shadows etc... these things are less obvious to my eye (usually look at the negs after selecting the ones i want to print to check for density)...
when editing from scans on a screen, i'm perhaps more drawn to sharpness and exposure issues over composition because of the added details...
ultimately it's a matter of discipline and perhaps i need to force myself into the contact sheet mindset even when editing 'on screen'
ClaremontPhoto
Jon Claremont
Somewhere along the line I've been billed as 'Dr'.
And just yesterday I was nervous in front of a nurse who was taking out some surgical stitches. He had earlier told me there as a ten minute wait and advised me to take some painkillers. I sure did take some painkillers: it said 'Whisky' right there on the bottle.
Anyway, the 'Dr' bit comes in useful when a parcel arrives and I'm out. Anybody else would get a card telling them to go to the post office to collect it the next day. Instead for me the mail carrier comes back an hour later with the parcel.
And just yesterday I was nervous in front of a nurse who was taking out some surgical stitches. He had earlier told me there as a ten minute wait and advised me to take some painkillers. I sure did take some painkillers: it said 'Whisky' right there on the bottle.
Anyway, the 'Dr' bit comes in useful when a parcel arrives and I'm out. Anybody else would get a card telling them to go to the post office to collect it the next day. Instead for me the mail carrier comes back an hour later with the parcel.
georgef
Well-known
I will not say I am at level in my photography that I can say I have mastered anything, nor am I able to get what my mind sees (I have this problem with an infinately imaginative mind you see) all the time, but I am still very happy at where I am and where I am going; you sound very...negative in how you aprocah the whole "my level of competence" thing.
phillipe: "...And here someting for the night thought:
"What is the best thing that could happen in your life?"
- To have achieved his dreams.
"What is the worse thing that could happen in your life?"
- To have achieved his dreams.
Think about it.
..."Phillipe, with all due respect, this 'grass is allways greener on the other side" cliche philosophy does nothing to make me stop something when I start enjoying it. I would sooner sell all my stuff if I feel I cannot progress any more, notthe other way around....just me maybe?
gb hill
Mentor
Definition of the word Failure...1.an act or instance of failing or proving unsuccessful; lack of success: His effort ended in failure. The campaign was a failure. 2.nonperformance of something due, required, or expected: a failure to do what one has promised; a failure to appear. 3.a subnormal quantity or quality; an insufficiency: the failure of crops.
The reason why ones photographs end up in a waste bin. Roger was correct.
The reason why ones photographs end up in a waste bin. Roger was correct.
tomasis
Well-known
I will not say I am at level in my photography that I can say I have mastered anything, nor am I able to get what my mind sees (I have this problem with an infinately imaginative mind you see) all the time, but I am still very happy at where I am and where I am going; you sound very...negative in how you aprocah the whole "my level of competence" thing.
you're happy. well you just did began, didnt you?
I think "never satisfied" and "enjoying of working while photographing" are different matters. Sometimes I get irritated when I miss some shots, or I thought I got some nice shoots and I was happy for a few days but later I recognize that is mere a bull*** so I start shooting again. I feel "satisfied feeling" get you very slow in the learning curve so with very humble approach, you find another things you never thought of.
Walt Disney films make people happy? unlikely, just for a few minutes
Roger Hicks
Mentor
When I first started, I couldn't believe how good my pics were -- because up to then (in 1966) I'd been used to commercial D+P.
I improved quite fast for a short while, then stagnated for a very long time because I wasn't prepared to put the time or money into re-printing 'almost there' shots. Once I started spending a bit more money on paper, and more time on re-printing, I started to get better again -- not least because I then started to put a lot more effort into making negs that were easier to print. The aesthetic side rides on the back of this: it's just a question of making lots of pics.
Am I satisfied now? Not fully. As others have said, if I thought I knew it all, and had already taken my best picture, why would I ever take another? Sometimes I make a pic that makes me think, "Well, I'm not really too bad at this." And those are the ones that spur me on to keep trying, to make pictures that are as good as those which I personally regard as my best.
Cheers,
Roger