Turtle
Mentor
Hi,
Firstly I would like to introduce myself! I am a Brit living near Chester and have been doing the mono darkroom thing for a few years. I am obsessed and will never, ever stop! I mainly shoot 35mm SLRs (mainly shots of my kids etc) and LF. Recently I sold up my heavy RZ67 and my gorgeous Rollei TLR and decided that what I wanted from MF was a fast, lightish camera with great optical quality which I could take on all my travels. Today I won a top condition RF645 with 65mm lens on Ebay for $550 which will be my first rangefinder!! I would have liked a M7II, but the prices are just beyond me, esp the wide angle lenses (50mm Mamiya is £1050, 45 Bronica £379!!!!!!!). Now for my question......
The RF 645 I won has the 135 bright lines and I am wondering if any of you have had experience with the 135 and 100 lenses. I am unsure as to whether getting a 135 and getting the lens matched to the individual body would be the way to go or get a 100 and get the bright line changed to the 100 one. I would perhaps prefer the 135 focal length for portraits but am more concerned about reliable focus. I have heard that the 100 is an great lens and that it focuses more accurately than the 135, however, has anyone had their 135 lens and body calibrated ( such as thru Robert White - who would not sell you the 135 lens unless you arranged for this to be done as he did not want customers complaining about soft images!)
Anyone know if the UK distributer still inserts 100mm frames free?
If the 100mm lens solved the focus probs, then why, when Tamron is continuing the RF645 and 45mm lens (and axing all other cams), has the 100mm lens been discontinued???
Any comments would be appreciated greatly,
Nice to be here!
Tom
Firstly I would like to introduce myself! I am a Brit living near Chester and have been doing the mono darkroom thing for a few years. I am obsessed and will never, ever stop! I mainly shoot 35mm SLRs (mainly shots of my kids etc) and LF. Recently I sold up my heavy RZ67 and my gorgeous Rollei TLR and decided that what I wanted from MF was a fast, lightish camera with great optical quality which I could take on all my travels. Today I won a top condition RF645 with 65mm lens on Ebay for $550 which will be my first rangefinder!! I would have liked a M7II, but the prices are just beyond me, esp the wide angle lenses (50mm Mamiya is £1050, 45 Bronica £379!!!!!!!). Now for my question......
The RF 645 I won has the 135 bright lines and I am wondering if any of you have had experience with the 135 and 100 lenses. I am unsure as to whether getting a 135 and getting the lens matched to the individual body would be the way to go or get a 100 and get the bright line changed to the 100 one. I would perhaps prefer the 135 focal length for portraits but am more concerned about reliable focus. I have heard that the 100 is an great lens and that it focuses more accurately than the 135, however, has anyone had their 135 lens and body calibrated ( such as thru Robert White - who would not sell you the 135 lens unless you arranged for this to be done as he did not want customers complaining about soft images!)
Anyone know if the UK distributer still inserts 100mm frames free?
If the 100mm lens solved the focus probs, then why, when Tamron is continuing the RF645 and 45mm lens (and axing all other cams), has the 100mm lens been discontinued???
Any comments would be appreciated greatly,
Nice to be here!
Tom
Hi Tom, and welcome to RFF! I have the newer RF645 with the 100mm framelines and 100/4.5 lens. I would love to have a matched set of 135mm lens and body! I understand that not all camera/lens combinations had focus problems, just those in which the manufacturing tolerances combined in an unfortunate way. Matching the lens to the camera eliminated this problem... which anyway only occurred at wide apertures at close distances.
Even on the 100mm lens, focus distances are marked on the lens only down to 1.8 meters, with a horizontal line showing how much closer it can actually get, which is about 1.2m. The manual urges caution and care in this close focus range, more subject to error. If similar care and caution is used with the 135mm lens wide and close, I'm sure it would be fine.
This sure was a costly PR error for Bronica, and this injured the kit's reputation at a time of declining medium format camera sales... doom! I think they had a couple of production runs of this camera and the lenses long ago, without any production in recent years... And that they have been selling from stock on hand all this time, and just recently ran out of the few 100mm lenses made. They only "continue" with the body and other pieces because they have unsold stock remaining in the warehouses! That's my suspicion, and I could be wrong.
I hope you can find a 135mm lens for your camera... and if you find two, let me know so I can consider getting one too! You got a great deal on that body + lens. I don't use my 100mm very much, but here's a sample...
Even on the 100mm lens, focus distances are marked on the lens only down to 1.8 meters, with a horizontal line showing how much closer it can actually get, which is about 1.2m. The manual urges caution and care in this close focus range, more subject to error. If similar care and caution is used with the 135mm lens wide and close, I'm sure it would be fine.
This sure was a costly PR error for Bronica, and this injured the kit's reputation at a time of declining medium format camera sales... doom! I think they had a couple of production runs of this camera and the lenses long ago, without any production in recent years... And that they have been selling from stock on hand all this time, and just recently ran out of the few 100mm lenses made. They only "continue" with the body and other pieces because they have unsold stock remaining in the warehouses! That's my suspicion, and I could be wrong.
I hope you can find a 135mm lens for your camera... and if you find two, let me know so I can consider getting one too! You got a great deal on that body + lens. I don't use my 100mm very much, but here's a sample...
Turtle
Mentor
Thanks, Doug.
Camera cost $650 (bad maths before), but still much cheaper than a single used M7 non-std lens!
I hope the importers match 135s to the body to free, as I read somwehere that they are now charging quite a bit to insert the 100 framelines. If I got a 100 lens what framelines if any would show if I attached it to the 135 framed body I wonder? I am sure if the 135 lines came up, I would figure out teh real extra coverage whe composing.
After picking up an RF645 a while back, I personally felt it was far better in the hand than the M7 and actually the smaller format has many advantages incl the fact that if I want grain, it is a bit easier to get than a big 6x7 neg! If I want that grainy street feel, I reckon TriX in rodinal should do the trick! Conversely, for creamy shots pan F will deliver (esp if dev'd in Aculux 2), albeit not to the same level as 6x7. Cant wait to get it
Tom
Camera cost $650 (bad maths before), but still much cheaper than a single used M7 non-std lens!
I hope the importers match 135s to the body to free, as I read somwehere that they are now charging quite a bit to insert the 100 framelines. If I got a 100 lens what framelines if any would show if I attached it to the 135 framed body I wonder? I am sure if the 135 lines came up, I would figure out teh real extra coverage whe composing.
After picking up an RF645 a while back, I personally felt it was far better in the hand than the M7 and actually the smaller format has many advantages incl the fact that if I want grain, it is a bit easier to get than a big 6x7 neg! If I want that grainy street feel, I reckon TriX in rodinal should do the trick! Conversely, for creamy shots pan F will deliver (esp if dev'd in Aculux 2), albeit not to the same level as 6x7. Cant wait to get it
Tom
I expect the 100mm lens would bring up the 135mm framelines in your camera. When film format proportions differ it's hard to come up with equivalent focal lengths... But the Bronica 45, 65, 100, and 135mm would be like 30, 45, 70, and 95 in Leica terms. Would be nice to have all four, actually, rather than a choice of 100 OR 135!
I've not used Rodinal before, but it seems to produce really lovely tonal qualities with Tri-X, though with more exposure than box-speed. The larger 645 neg should smooth out the appearance of the grain while retaining that attractive tonality. I'd like to see the results! I shot a roll of Delta 3200 and developed it in Diafine, but it's not been scanned or printed. For years XP2 has been my preferred B&W film, and I like its smooth creamy look when given a generous exposure, particularly nice in medium format.
I've not used Rodinal before, but it seems to produce really lovely tonal qualities with Tri-X, though with more exposure than box-speed. The larger 645 neg should smooth out the appearance of the grain while retaining that attractive tonality. I'd like to see the results! I shot a roll of Delta 3200 and developed it in Diafine, but it's not been scanned or printed. For years XP2 has been my preferred B&W film, and I like its smooth creamy look when given a generous exposure, particularly nice in medium format.
Turtle
Mentor
I have been trying HP5 in pyrocat with agitation every 3 mins, which gives great acutance and nice crisp grain off 6x7 negs. I reckon rodinal would roughen up the grain as well as make it bigger for a more raw look (esp off 645). The pyrocat grain is very tight and regular and on a 6x7 HP5 enlarged to 10x8, is just noticeable but perhaps too clinical for street stuff!
I have also dabbled with neopan 1600 which is great, but teh grain is a little soft, so again something with more acutance would be my choice. Having seen some Salgado work, I really opened my mind to prominent crisp gritty grain with the right images.........and this comes from someone who loves 5x4 and up for its creaminess!
If the RF645 works out, in the long term I would seek a second body; one with Pan F in for theose smoothy images whereliquid tones are required and a 400 speed film dev'd in something crisp for the gritty stuff - best of both worlds!
Cant wait for teh RF645, which should allow me periods of relaxation between bouts with the sometimes infuriating 10x8 as well as some fluid inquisitive travel photography (which I have grown to miss with the LF)!!
I have also dabbled with neopan 1600 which is great, but teh grain is a little soft, so again something with more acutance would be my choice. Having seen some Salgado work, I really opened my mind to prominent crisp gritty grain with the right images.........and this comes from someone who loves 5x4 and up for its creaminess!
If the RF645 works out, in the long term I would seek a second body; one with Pan F in for theose smoothy images whereliquid tones are required and a 400 speed film dev'd in something crisp for the gritty stuff - best of both worlds!
Cant wait for teh RF645, which should allow me periods of relaxation between bouts with the sometimes infuriating 10x8 as well as some fluid inquisitive travel photography (which I have grown to miss with the LF)!!
The Bronica is a decent travel camera. It doesn't require a large bag to hold the camera and two spare lenses and viewfinder, hand-held meter, extra batteries and lots of film. One a recent trip to Hawaii I even had a Fuji GA645W in the bag too. And the bag easily fit inside my carry-on suitcase. In comparing the size of the Bronica to a Leica M2 with its 35 'cron with hood, I found them essentially the same width and thickness, but the RF645 is one inch taller.
With XP2 Super at the Farmers' Market, 45mm lens...
With XP2 Super at the Farmers' Market, 45mm lens...
Turtle
Mentor
I just gave in hugely and went mad with my credit card. I picked up a second used camera complete (not decided whether to sell or keep the second 65mm) and bought a new 45mm. The 45mm was only £349 from a main dealer! It was their last one and I reckon within a few weeks the shelves will be dry. The last 45mm that went on ebay was new boxed etc and went for £320.....I therefore figured another £20 for a warrantly was worth it, considering that I may have to wait ages to find used ones! Both bodies coming my way are 135 framed, but I think it would be easier to use a 100 with 135 bright lines than 135 with 100 lines...by far! I will be looking for longer lenses now.
Now for the hard bit...shedding other kit to the value of what I have just bought. I don't think I will regret what I have done - I really needed something that allowed me to loosen up compared to LF. As for the credit card flurry, it is rather like a samurai charge......running oblivious with sword waving whatever the consequences. It had to be done, as will the 'eeny, miny, mo' for existing kit to go on ebay!
Normally with a LF camera purchase, there is hard work ahead...but this time, I am hoping life will get easier!
T
Now for the hard bit...shedding other kit to the value of what I have just bought. I don't think I will regret what I have done - I really needed something that allowed me to loosen up compared to LF. As for the credit card flurry, it is rather like a samurai charge......running oblivious with sword waving whatever the consequences. It had to be done, as will the 'eeny, miny, mo' for existing kit to go on ebay!
Normally with a LF camera purchase, there is hard work ahead...but this time, I am hoping life will get easier!
T
T, that is indeed an impressive committment on your part to the Bronica RF system, all the moreso in going for the second set before receiving the first! Remarkable that both have the 135mm framelines too. I do think it makes sense to have a second compatible body for a camera often used. And my cameras seem to pair up.
If you can manage it budgetarily, it might be useful to keep the second 65mm. In use, if you carried both cameras at once with different films, having the 65mm on each as the standard lens might be more convenient than swapping one lone 65 between the two bodies. Here in the US, anyway, the camera was sold only with the 65mm as a kit. So most RF645 body owners already have this normal lens anyway, making it a hard sell. And if you were later inclined to sell one of the RF bodies, it might sell more easily with that lens.
If you can manage it budgetarily, it might be useful to keep the second 65mm. In use, if you carried both cameras at once with different films, having the 65mm on each as the standard lens might be more convenient than swapping one lone 65 between the two bodies. Here in the US, anyway, the camera was sold only with the 65mm as a kit. So most RF645 body owners already have this normal lens anyway, making it a hard sell. And if you were later inclined to sell one of the RF bodies, it might sell more easily with that lens.
threeshoes
Newbie
Bronica RF645 - 100 or 135mm lens?
Bronica RF645 - 100 or 135mm lens?
T, I sold a complete Bronica kit, including 135mm lens, in December last year and regretted it pretty soon afterwards. I had kept my Contax G2 kit in deciding how to finance the purchase of an Olympus E-1 (with educational discount).
Well, I have just sold the G2 kit and bought a new RF645 with 65/4 (from Robert White) and 45/4, 135/4.5 and RF20, all secondhand. Intro2020 calibrated the camera for the 135 lens (free) and replaced the 100mm viewfinder frame with that for the 135mm lens (£44). The process was very quick and I am now the happy owner of a RF645 kit again .
Let me know if you want Intro2020's address and telephone number.
Chris
Bronica RF645 - 100 or 135mm lens?
T, I sold a complete Bronica kit, including 135mm lens, in December last year and regretted it pretty soon afterwards. I had kept my Contax G2 kit in deciding how to finance the purchase of an Olympus E-1 (with educational discount).
Well, I have just sold the G2 kit and bought a new RF645 with 65/4 (from Robert White) and 45/4, 135/4.5 and RF20, all secondhand. Intro2020 calibrated the camera for the 135 lens (free) and replaced the 100mm viewfinder frame with that for the 135mm lens (£44). The process was very quick and I am now the happy owner of a RF645 kit again
.Let me know if you want Intro2020's address and telephone number.
Chris
Thanks Chris, that would be useful! And a welcome to RFF, fellow RF645 devotee!
Turtle
Mentor
I don't regret the RF645 commitment for a second. Buying into a very simple system was a blessing. I HAVE to keep things simple. FAR smaller than Mamiya 7 in real terms and build is wonderful, handling even better. They are going to get a LOT of use.
Jon Perry
Established
Hi,
I currently have two RF645 Bodies along with 2x65mm, 1x45mm, 1x100mm, and the RF20 Flash Unit.
When I picked up my second (used) RF645 it had the 135mm bright lines fitted and the focus alignment was slightly out. I contacted the UK distubuter about getting the realignment work carried out and they offered to install new 100mm bright lines and realign for free!
It's a real shame that this camera will have no new products released for it. I absolutely love it. Maybe after the digital boom has gone bust, we will see a return to more traditional methods of photography (on a smaller scale, I'm sure). In the mean time I intend to make use of this amazing "little" camera and run as much film through it as the film manufacturers will allow.
Film of preference is Ilford FP4 or Fuji Neopan.
What about you guys?
Jon.
I currently have two RF645 Bodies along with 2x65mm, 1x45mm, 1x100mm, and the RF20 Flash Unit.
When I picked up my second (used) RF645 it had the 135mm bright lines fitted and the focus alignment was slightly out. I contacted the UK distubuter about getting the realignment work carried out and they offered to install new 100mm bright lines and realign for free!
It's a real shame that this camera will have no new products released for it. I absolutely love it. Maybe after the digital boom has gone bust, we will see a return to more traditional methods of photography (on a smaller scale, I'm sure). In the mean time I intend to make use of this amazing "little" camera and run as much film through it as the film manufacturers will allow.
Film of preference is Ilford FP4 or Fuji Neopan.
What about you guys?
Jon.
Jon! You're another two-Bronica shooter! Been thinking of a second body myself. I got my RF645 and 3 lenses new a couple years ago. I shoot mostly Fuji NPZ800 and do a lot of business interior environmental portraits. So the lighting is variable and mixed. NPZ is wonderful stuff! I could use a 30mm lens, but sadly that's unlikely to appear.
Jon Perry
Established
Sadly, very true.Doug said:
Jon.
Turtle
Mentor
I am over the moon with mine! I have put about 10 rolls thru so far and the handling and results are superb. Metering seems very good much to my surprise! I love the build (way ahead of the mamiya 7) and the vertical viewfinder is not issue for me. Truly superb value used. I am very glad I bought a second body. One for slow and one for fast mono film.
Love it and can honestly say it is prob the most instinctive and best overall camera thhat I have ever owned. Perfect middle ground between my LF and 35mm Af stuff.
T
Love it and can honestly say it is prob the most instinctive and best overall camera thhat I have ever owned. Perfect middle ground between my LF and 35mm Af stuff.
T