Out to Lunch
Menteur
Dear Roger, Your knack for self-promotion is admirable. Plein de bisous, Peter
cz23
-
I write for a living myself and fully appreciate the need to maintain the integrity of a thoughtfully developed piece. Still, I can't imagine what would convince me that, as a standard practice, directing RFF membership to a personal, external resource, is an acceptable approach to forum membership, much less mentorship. Consider if all mentors (and members) always only pointed us to their web sites or blogs. What an odd place this would be. Doing so routinely seems self-serving and has the appearance of click-bait.
It seems to me that the signature is the appropriate place for such links, and that we should facilitate dialogue right here within RFF, with exceptions for occasional special outside references.
As far as my unwillingness to view your external posts being a "perverse" perspective, it is simply a matter of not wanting to support behavior that I consider unacceptable. If you were to introduce the same theme here, as an RFF post, I would happily participate. And I think this community would be better for you doing so.
John
Roger Hicks
Mentor
Dear Peter,
Sorry, I can't quite understand what you mean. I give away articles and short stories on my site; I engage in discussion here and elsewhere. How is this "self promotion"? More to the point, how could I engage with people without what you call "self promotion"?
I'd far rather earn tens of thousands a year, as I used to 25 years ago, by writing for magazines. But the magazines are now gone, or shadows of their former selves, and I like to keep my hand in via the .eu site. What do you suggest that I should do?
Cheers,
R.
Out to Lunch
Menteur
I suggest you adopt a kinder version of yourself when going on RFF.
Roger Hicks
Mentor
Dear John,
But what advantage am I supposed to be deriving from this "click bait"? The point about the world wide web lies in the title: the word "web". Everything connects with everything else. Why would I want either to limit myself to one forum, or to repeat the same ideas on several forums? Surely a link is a better idea.
Cheers,
R.
Roger Hicks
Mentor
Dear Peter,
I do not see myself as unkind. If you do, well, it's unfortunate, but I can't get excited about it because I can't see what I can do about it.
Cheers,
R.
rbiemer
Unabashed Amateur
I tend to think the only reliable thing a photograph can say for itself is, "I'm a photograph." After that, it may remind the viewer of something or induce them to provide or guess a meaning.
People here have talked about single photos vs series or projects but I have to wonder, how many single photos are there?
I don't really do projects but there certainly is an overarching idea or point of view that the "work" I choose to share conforms to. That idea might (probably?) be better expressed by more than one photo but I can't truly say because there are multiple photos of mine--here and else where, both on line and off--on display.
Which does lead me back to titles...which might make those seemingly "single" photos relate to each other better for viewers.
Rob
People here have talked about single photos vs series or projects but I have to wonder, how many single photos are there?
I don't really do projects but there certainly is an overarching idea or point of view that the "work" I choose to share conforms to. That idea might (probably?) be better expressed by more than one photo but I can't truly say because there are multiple photos of mine--here and else where, both on line and off--on display.
Which does lead me back to titles...which might make those seemingly "single" photos relate to each other better for viewers.
Rob
Roger Hicks
Mentor
Dear Rob,
Highlight: I have addressed this to some extent in a piece about the nature of a "body of work", with some observations about "artists' statements" as well.
Your other comments prompt me to ask whether there is any such thing, any more, as a "single" photograph. Of course there is in one sense; but in the welter of images in which we live, perhaps there is a temptation to categorize pictures. Instead of "categorize", a better way to put it might be "lump together, not always consciously". "Selfies" is an obvious (and often pejorative) category/ lump, but we also have "street photography", "abstracts", "still life", etc. This is very much a preliminary thought but I thought it worth mentioning.
Cheers,
R.
ptpdprinter
Mentor
Not all self-promotion is financially driven. Other needs are met by self-promotion. I wouldn't hazard a guess as to what needs of his are being met by his posting links here on RFF to articles on his website about assisted suicide, erotic dreams and robot sex, and the like. Regardless of what you think about the content, they don't seem relevant to a photography forum.
Contarama
Well-known
I think Suze Randell's photography speaks for itself. Haha
Roger Hicks
Mentor
Dear John,
I've been thinking more about this and I simply do not understand your arguments. Would you read a 2000 word post on this forum, such as the one I have just put up on my site? I don't think I would.
A forum is a place to discuss ideas, and I really don't see how discussing ideas in a linked piece is inconsistent with being a "mentor". People who are interested can follow the links then come back here to talk about them. Who is being harmed by this? RFF gets the traffic and the discussions. Actually, so does the Amateur Photographer forum: I find it very interesting to get different reactions from different forums, on those forums. What is your problem with this?
Cheers,
R.
Roger Hicks
Mentor
Dear Franklin,
What needs of yours are met by refusing to use your real name on the forum, and constantly sniping? I encourage people to think, about photography and all kinds of other things. What do you encourage people to do?
You might also notice that of late I have not linked only to articles that are nothing to do with photography: there's been one on photography (for those whose interests lie nowhere else) and another article for those who might enjoy it.
Cheers,
R.
ptpdprinter
Mentor
This is a photography forum not an assisted suicide or robot sex forum. If you want to write articles on other topics, you can flog them elsewhere.
Roger Hicks
Mentor
And you have appointed yourself the sole arbiter of what anyone on the forum is allowed to be interested in?
As I have said before, one of the things I find so interesting about this forum is that it is NOT self-selecting for any interest other than photography. In other words, one can rely on a wide range of views on almost anything: right wing, left wing, religious, atheist, narrow-minded, broad minded, intelligent, stupid...
How am I "flogging" these articles? They are there for anyone who wants to read them. Those who don't want to, don't have to. If I were to write exclusively about assisted suicide or (apparently your favourite) robot sex, yes, you might have a point. There are however just a couple of examples, despite your apparent obsession with them, and they are liberally mixed with articles on photography. As it is, you are indulging in the fine old pastime of "The only thing that interests me is photography, therefore I want to live in a little bubble that deals only with photography."
It may well be that you have other interests, and indulge them on other forums: other bubbles, other echo chambers. Why are you so afraid of broadening your horizons, of being exposed to new ideas? Or even being encouraged to revisit old ideas? It's not even as if you are being forced to do so: as I say, it's quite easy to ignore things that don't interest you.
Cheers,
R.
ptpdprinter
Mentor
Perhaps we should ask the head bartender to set up an off-topic forum where members can post about non-photography topics, rather than weaving the photography and non-photography topics together. APUG does this with The Lounge, and it is a common strategy on other forums I visit as well.
Darthfeeble
But you can call me Steve
So. About titles, I'd like to see more "Where and When and What" So many of us are from places so many of us have no knowledge of. Untitled is not very rewarding. I have done that in the past but will try in the future to at least inform if not guide the viewer.
Out to Lunch
Menteur
''The Hicks Forum''. Anything goes.
cz23
-
Good gracious, Roger, you're a photography mentor on a photography forum and, as implied by your introduction, are in that position because of your rangefinder and photography credentials. Surely you have something to offer right here, other than trying to direct the RFF community to your personal site. You really can't see the concern?
John
John
ptpdprinter
Mentor
You, of course, can be interested in anything you want. I am not attempting to arbitrate your interests. I would prefer that, in the spirit of RFF, that posted topics be limited to those which are photography related, so as to maintain the integrity of the forum.
You are the only member here who posts non-photography related topics, and who posts links to your own website to non-photography related articles. So I would say that the rest of the members here do self-select for photography. That is the purpose of the forum. You think you are special, entitled, and not subject to the constraints that guide the behavior of the rest of the members on RFF. Fundamentally, you are abusing your status as an RFF mentor to do whatever you please.
You are flogging those articles by posting links here to them on your website, and encouraging people to read them, and engage with you on them.
I am not obsessed by the "article" you wrote on your personal erotic dreams and robot sex. You wrote it. You posted it on your website. You posted links to it here on RFF. It is simply your most recent off-topic posting.
I have a wide variety of interests, but the only thing I am interested in reading about on a photography website is photography. That is its stated purpose.
RFF is not a bubble or an echo chamber, nor are many of the other sites I and other members visit. There are a whole range of views on photography expressed here, and that is good.
This issue of off-topic posting can only be resolved by Stephen. I have asked him to address the issue and will abide by his decision.
Bill Clark
Mentor
Yes.
The type of photographs I make/made, do/did reflect the emotions of a very special day. My desire is to have each person re-live the event each time they look at the photographs. Even business portraits I make refect the same feelings.
They evoke happiness and joy. I believe we all need more of that in our lives.