Compensating for filters

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traveler_101

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Normally I don't use them :eek: but I plan on doing so this summer with the CV 25/4 Snapshot Skopar mounted on my IIIf. How many stops do you open the lens to compensate for an (a) yellow filter and (b) an orange filter? I am guessing one stop for the yellow and two for the orange . . . or is that too much? Thanks in advance.
 
I think you're correct on the stops, as that's what I use too. Works fine. They come in different variations (K1, K2, etc), but that's a good scheme. I have a yellow filter on for B&W permanently as it darkens the skies, gives the clouds a little pop, and generally looks real good w/ Tri-X. Orange filters are a bit problematic. I do not like the way they change the native tones, but to each their own. Didn't work well for portraits for me either, but a lot depends on your lighting at the time and the complexion of your subject. Lately I have been having a lot of fun shooting w/ a red filter. I just like the way it changes the tones, looks fine for portraits, and the skies and clouds are wonderful. About 2 to 2 1/2 stops for the red. The link below has some good places to start.

http://www.fineart-photography.com/bwfilter.html
 
It could be dark yellow or deep red, or it could be light yellow filter.
If I have strong filter it is tested with iPhone lightmeter free software.
One measure without filter, one measure of the same light scene with filter.
It will show me exact numbers for particular filter I have.
Like, I have dark green filter. With filter on, all I do is measuring 400 film as 200 with sensitivity set on my handheld light meter.
 
My light yellow I compensate with no stops. My orange which is also light I do 1 stop. I also have a dark orange which I do 2 stops. I find that putting filters on a light table and eyeball comparing is the best way for me to tell which compensation to use.

I set my meter to a new ISO/EI (when working with a meterless camera like the IIIf) rather than changing the camera. Also Red filters are highly inaccurate when used with a thru the lens camera meter.
 
Go on the manufactures web site and see what they suggest. Most likely there will be no compensation required for the light yellow and probably one stop for the orange. Still, it's worth checking.
 
Thanks, guys for the nice responses. You're right Sparrow: there is a rating on the filter. My yellow is 2x and the orange is 4x. Looks like orange is 2 stops then.

Carter and Ko-Fe, I like the idea of compensating with the ISO setting. So for two stops, 400 speed film becomes 100 speed?

Ok Steve I will check out the orange filter on some test shots before I use it for my travel photography this summer. However, I really liked these by NeeZee on TRI-X taken with a orange filter http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2145514&postcount=80

Don't have red filter unfortunately.

Anyone try filters with T-MAX 100?
 
rpsawin said:
Go on the manufactures web site and see what they suggest. Most likely there will be no compensation required for the light yellow and probably one stop for the orange. Still, it's worth checking.
Click to expand...

Very good suggestion. The filter are B+W made by Schneider in Germany, but I have been unable to find the specific information I need. There seem to be a couple of dead links on their pages. i did find this bit of useful information, which I didn't know and should have known:

Black-and-white exposure filters block the light components of their complementary colors (i.e. the colors that are positioned across from each other on the color circle), rendering them in darker tones. Subject colors that are the same as the filter's own color, on the other hand, are reproduced in lighter tones. Thus a red filter will lighten red blossoms and simultaneously darken green foliage, whereas a green filter will produce exactly the opposite effect.
 
traveler_101 said:
So for two stops, 400 speed film becomes 100 speed?
Anyone try filters with T-MAX 100?
Click to expand...

Yes, 400, 200, 100, so two stops from 400 is 100, and you're going the right way, giving it more exposure.

All the time with T-Max, they have the normal expected results. Its the same base chemistry, just packaged slightly differently AFAIK.
The only film I don't find filters work is BW400CN, but thats not a silver halide film.

Michael
 
Hi,

Filter factors can be very subtle.

In your shoes I'd buy a 24 exposure film and experiment and change by half stops for the orange and quarter stops for the yellow. You don't have to get the film printed just developed would do.

BTW, ignore if you like, but what on earth do you want an orange filter for? Most of us just use a light and medium yellow and, perhaps, a yellow-green with B&W film for landscapes. But using one for people worries me...

Regards, David
 
David Hughes said:
Hi,

Filter factors can be very subtle.

In your shoes I'd buy a 24 exposure film and experiment and change by half stops for the orange and quarter stops for the yellow. You don't have to get the film printed just developed would do.

BTW, ignore if you like, but what on earth do you want an orange filter for? Most of us just use a light and medium yellow and, perhaps, a yellow-green with B&W film for landscapes. But using one for people worries me...

Regards, David
Click to expand...

Hi David,

Yes i am going to experiment on a roll of . . . well i was going to say Tri-X but maybe I'll use this Kenmore stuff which i didn't like very much.

Orange filter . . . I don't know as I said in the original post I basically dislike using filters . . . just another interference, but I liked the effect of an orange filter on sky and on ruins in a set of photographs I saw. And I am going to Italy where it is very very bright; I have found it difficult in the past to shoot in full sunlight there.

Mark
 
Try also a green filter.
Portraits benefit from red and yellow for zits(acne).
lightens skin tones, Caucasian.
The red filters often need more exposure than if you metered thru them..
Filter factors are a guide, not an exact number.Drama is good.
Those working digitally changing color digital to B/W will notice how effective, the green filter is!
 
leicapixie said:
Try also a green filter.
Portraits benefit from red and yellow for zits(acne).
lightens skin tones, Caucasian.
The red filters often need more exposure than if you metered thru them..
Filter factors are a guide, not an exact number.Drama is good.
Those working digitally changing color digital to B/W will notice how effective, the green filter is!
Click to expand...

Thanks. Is there a general scale with filter factors, i.e. each factor = half a stop?
 
hi, sorry if i'm hijacking your thread..

about these compensating rate for filters, I wonder if it also works on light meter.. I'm using olympus 35 SP with alkaline and the meter is off about 1-2 stops..
so if I patch my Oly 35 SP light meter window with some red gel, would the meter be 'normal' (usually I set ISO 100 for ISO 200 film)..
I know I should try it with film but want some insight first :eek:

thanks
 
yesaroos said:
hi, sorry if i'm hijacking your thread..

about these compensating rate for filters, I wonder if it also works on light meter.. I'm using olympus 35 SP with alkaline and the meter is off about 1-2 stops..
so if I patch my Oly 35 SP light meter window with some red gel, would the meter be 'normal' (usually I set ISO 100 for ISO 200 film)..
I know I should try it with film but want some insight first :eek:

thanks
Click to expand...

For that particular use, you'd be better off with neutral density rather than color; the latter can be skewed by colors predominating certain scenes, leading to inconsistent readings.
 
What I have gathered from people here that are a lot more experienced than I: it is not necessary to use a BUILT-IN light meter with b&w film. I use the "Sunny 16" rule much of the time and hit most of the shots--sure I make mistakes. In trickier situations I take one measurement with an external light meter and then base my shooting on that. No need to constantly check your light meter. Then you can compensate for filters on the basis of your estimates and readings from an external finder. Keep in mind that some films -- Tri-X -- are more forgiving than others.

Maybe someone else can back me up here or tell me I'm wrong :)
 
02Pilot said:
For that particular use, you'd be better off with neutral density rather than color; the latter can be skewed by colors predominating certain scenes, leading to inconsistent readings.
Click to expand...

thanks, I'll check about ND filter, the red gel is actually cut the metering about 1-1.5 stop.. but might be skewed in certain scenes as you say..

traveler_101 said:
What I have gathered from people here that are a lot more experienced than I: it is not necessary to use a BUILT-IN light meter with b&w film. I use the "Sunny 16" rule much of the time and hit most of the shots--sure I make mistakes. In trickier situations I take one measurement with an external light meter and then base my shooting on that. No need to constantly check your light meter. Then you can compensate for filters on the basis of your estimates and readings from an external finder. Keep in mind that some films -- Tri-X -- are more forgiving than others.

Maybe someone else can back me up here or tell me I'm wrong :)
Click to expand...

hi, I'm using sunny 16 too.. but sometimes get tempted to use the Oly 35 auto mode :D after read your thread about filter compensation, I'm thinking about applied it on my Oly 35 light meter instead of lowering the ISO dial or doing some tweak on the electrical..
 
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