Does Leica need money? (M8 horror)

Just wondering... has Leica responded directly on RFF or the other forums about this matter?

I think I have "heard" enough from the "prosecutor's" point of view, and I would like to hear something from the defendant's side.

Maybe from someone in Leica's technical servicing department or the like?
 
reinierv,

Who from Leica told you that it is not covered under warranty and that it costs 3340 Euro? Did you receive a written quote?
Click to expand...
Yes I did

You know I agree...one should not compare. Were talking M8 here. But as stated by others the M8 in posted as a superieur tool for outdoor (journalist) use. Image quality in the lower iso's is great and I stunned a 5D owner with them. No argument there.

If I would have drowned the M8, I wouls have go boohoo and go to the insurance company.

Come to think of it...it is pretty odd that this forum has a special topic called "M8 problems"

BTW this are pictures of the damage. this is not the result of a water ballet

file.php


file.php
 
Only looking at these photos (and without having read the story behind it) my guess would be salt water corrosion caused by an electric current through some of the contacts (because not all parts are oxidized). Since the electronic parts are inside the camera, I could imagine that water (from rain drops) diluted some salt residues (either from the camera surface or the clothes were the camera was wrapped into), which made their way into the camera.

(Just my thoughts being a physical chemist / electrochemist)
 
Sparrow said:
Probably a silly idea but why don’t they just spray the finished components with a thin coat of lacquer?
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It would be good for protection but difficult to un-soldier / re-soldier parts if necessary. Also, it looks like that these are flexible circuit boards, lacquer might not be stable when bending these for mounting / unmounting purposes.
 
maddoc said:
It would be good for protection but difficult to un-soldier / re-soldier parts if necessary. Also, it looks like that these are flexible circuit boards, lacquer might not be stable when bending these for mounting / unmounting purposes.
Click to expand...

A few seconds removing it before working on the board seems as small price to pay compared to the alternative.
 
Spraying lacquer on the internal parts of an M8 .... could this be a DIY weather sealing option ? How hard is it to take an M8 apart ?
 
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shiro_kuro said:
Spraying lacquer on the internal parts of an M8 .... could this be a DIY weather sealing option ? How hard is it to take an M8 apart ?
Click to expand...

Why not simply carrying a plastic rain-cover bag (~ 20 bucks, plenty different models / sizes available) or shopping bag (convenient store) and protect camera AND lens ?
 
Right.

1. Can someone please point out to me where Leica says that the M8, or indeed the M7 or MP are weather- or waterproof?

2. Can the OP provide PDFs or simple .jpgs of the correspondance from Leica?

3. Can the OP provide similar where an as yet un-named insurance company has changed it's entire policy on the strength of this one incident?

4. Can someone explain the sense to me of allowing a piece of electronic equipment to get wet then wrapping it for an unspecified period of time in damp clothing in a rucksack in a humid environment?

5. Can someone explain to me why Leica is "guilty" when their product has been used in a way for which it was not certified or intended?

Regards,

Bill
 
Bill, I second that.

I would like to see those correspondence with Leica too. And of course the name of the insurance company. I don't think that my insurance company, which is Chubb, would behave like that.

Rudy
 
The insurance name company your are allowed to know: KBRbeheer int he netherlands
No I'm not going to post the conversation with Leica, what to do think you can gain on that? They send me a mail, its waterdamage, tough luck no waranty, repair cost 3340. On my reponse on how the camera was treated no more replies.
No it was not packed into damp clothes, it was packed into dry clothes. We were 5 days under way in the tour, still lots of clean shirts then ;-)
No that is not salt, we already determined it is water corrosion on components under power. It is bad luck the droplets were created on parts that were under power. And it ofcourse took 3 weeks to get how again and ship it. Time enough for corrosion to continue to form.

And for all you thomassen out their with the true Leica believers heart: I will still take any bet that I can not come up with written statements by tour members on how the camera was treated. And no, I dont have them now, because it was not required for the insurance, but put in a right bet, and I will take care I get them...
 
reinierv,

I am not one of the 'true Leica believers' you are mention, I actually don't believe in anything. I know something or I don't.

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. As simple as that.

Thanks,

Rudy
 
I am an EE, condensation should not short a board that was wave soldered and has gold contacts if the board has a suitable surface coating covering the traces. I have seen acid in solder react with liquids but not condensation.

I know two things about selling expensive electronics.

1. Owners expect expensive high end gear to provide superior performance and reliability.

2. When a problem occurs people who spend for the best expect the problems to be dealt with quickly with a smile on one's face.
 
This complaint is totally without merit. If you are foolish enough to take an expensive unsealed electronic camera in the rain, you deserve whatever happens to it. It's even more foolish to think for a moment Leica's warranty should cover your mistakes. If your insurance really did pay off, they should not have. It was YOUR fault, not the camera.

On top of that, the story you posted at LCF http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/leica-m8-forum/60525-m8-greenland.html
is a bit different than the story posted at RFF AT LCF you say "The screen showed a lot of moist in the camera." while the story you posted at RFF says "it proved that some condensation was present on the camera" It seems the amount of moisture inside the M8 is variable with how bad you are trying to make Leica look.

You have no complaint with Leica. Your only real complaint is with yourself for using the M8 under conditions that it was not intended. Shame on you.

Alex
 
I'm sorry this happened to you, but you failed to properly handle your gear. Now it's broken and you are surprised?
 
Store the LEICA M8 in a dry, adequately ventilated
place, where neither high temperatures nor high
humidity will occur. When used in humid condi-
tions, the LEICA M8 should be completely cleared
of all moisture before being stored away.
Click to expand...

thank you for quoting this. I was in doubt if I would replace the M8. Now I'm sure I will not. This simply means this is a studio kamera and I need an outdoor camera, e.g. like the M's used to be.

My camera was dried, it was stored between dry clothes..what do you expect more? But ok, its clear we disagree.

Oh wow, somewhhere I wrote "a lot" en somewhere else ar wrote "some", oh wow, now this guy must be a liar and an idiot, your are absolutely right. Lets pickle about words and contexts, not about the case. I still see nobody putting in a bet to get my written statements

Btw no I realize it, why is there a special thread on M8 problems. I don't see one for other RF nor other camera's

Too bad, I loved using RFs
 
Back in the mid '90s I had a Contax RX and a batch of nice glass to go with it. I attended a Contax Day, run by the UK branch of Kyocera. They laid on kit to use, an endless supply of free film and "masterclasses" with experienced photographers - Stu Williamson and James Bareham in particular. It was a shocking day, but James B still took us outside into the rain with our own and the loaned equipment. He told us not to be worried about shooting in the rain, as long as we dried our kit off and aired it thoroughly afterwards. The Kyocera people looked on and smiled. After an hour or so in the pouring rain we returned inside. James was adamant that it was OUR responsibility to dry the kit and nobody else's, and moved among the group showing people how to get everything thoroughly dry. The organisers had already arranged for a couple of large tables to be readied on which we could put the equipment to air while we listened to the next session. James Bareham's parting shot was not to be afraid of using your kit, but to respect it and ALWAYS to clean it and dry it and air it after use and before putting it away. My RX wasn't particularly waterproofed, as I recall, but it worked flawlessly on the day and for years thereafter.

Good advice, and common sense.

Of course as my mother used to say, the funny thing about common sense is that it is not very common.

Reiner, methinks you doth protest too much.

Regards,

Bill
 
BillP said:
Back in the mid '90s I had a Contax RX and a batch of nice glass to go with it. I attended a Contax Day, run by the UK branch of Kyocera. They laid on kit to use, an endless supply of free film and "masterclasses" with experienced photographers - Stu Williamson and James Bareham in particular. It was a shocking day, but James B still took us outside into the rain with our own and the loaned equipment. He told us not to be worried about shooting in the rain, as long as we dried our kit off and aired it thoroughly afterwards. The Kyocera people looked on and smiled. After an hour or so in the pouring rain we returned inside. James was adamant that it was OUR responsibility to dry the kit and nobody else's, and moved among the group showing people how to get everything thoroughly dry. The organisers had already arranged for a couple of large tables to be readied on which we could put the equipment to air while we listened to the next session. James Bareham's parting shot was not to be afraid of using your kit, but to respect it and ALWAYS to clean it and dry it and air it after use and before putting it away. My RX wasn't particularly waterproofed, as I recall, but it worked flawlessly on the day and for years thereafter.

Good advice, and common sense.

Of course as my mother used to say, the funny thing about common sense is that it is not very common.

Reiner, methinks you doth protest too much.

Regards,

Bill
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Bill,
That is fair, but the manual says "Do not expose the unit to moisture or rain." if this is enough to void the warranty, well.. in my opinion this is *not* fair at all.

Rob.
 
When it gets to the point where you are holding your “Terms and Conditions” under your customers nose, he is no longer your customer
 
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