full frame mirrorless nikon?

lynnb said:
I'd be careful about getting my hopes up - a Nikon FF mirrorless might simply turn out to be a DSLR with an EVF..

I'm doubtful Nikon would create a new FF lens mount, although anything is possible. Their best chance of profitability is to
1. convince people to buy FF where the margins are higher
2. sell more FX lenses for same reason
3. convince existing DX customers to upgrade to FF, either mirrorless or traditional DSLR.

DX may be the sweet spot for price/performance, but Nikon has let that slide (how long until a D300 replacement arrives, and a good set of primes for DX?), concentrating instead on the higher margins to be had from FX offerings.

If they retain the same FX mount and lenses, however, they will not fix the user problem of the large/heavy camera bag. Once you buy a few FX lenses, you're in the same boat as Canon users.

Fuji now has a mature product with excellent primes and zooms. If the Nikon FF mirrorless is physically bigger and heavier (including lenses), they will have trouble convincing the faithful to remain in the fold. They would be reluctant to cannibalise sales of the D750/600/810 by releasing a whole new smaller system with smaller mount but still full frame. They face some tough decisions. I hope they get them right. Nikon's ergonomics are amongst the best in the business. It would be a shame if they started to lose market share.
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That would be the Pentax approach that I mentioned above, but w/ an evf unlike the Pentax. The Pentax was a flop btw.

I think the closest anyone will see to a d300 is the d7200, IMHO.

Given what we have seen in terms of Fuji xt1 and x100t..plus the Fuji lens lineup, I think the next gen products like the xe3 or xp2 maybe will drive interest in 2015. Right now for most people Sony and Fuji are pushing out some of the most interesting feature technology. Both Canon and Nikon have got to come to the ff mirrorless marketplace hungry and ready to play hard.

What is strange to me, is that everyone seems to bitch about if Fuji does ff, then my existing apsc x mount lenses are useless. No one bitched about their e mount lenses not working in ff or the fe mount lenses they needed to buy to make use of ff. While the Sony brand e mount lenses were for the most part only so-so and zooms, the Sony/Zeiss lenses were just as good as the Fuji lenses and on average just as expensive (example 24f1.8 e mount vs 23f1.4 x mount).

Personally, I am ok w/ the Fuji apsc lineup. I would like to c them establish a ff and that rumored medium format camera that has been rumored. I hope it is a replica of their Texas Leica btw.

But if Canon or Nikon comes to ff w/ a Pentax type design.. It's like coming to a gunfight w/ only a knife type of analogy.

Gary
 
I'm looking small camera, should I postpone my plan to buy Ricoh GR and waiting Nikon and Canon FF mirror less cam release?

GAS burning..:)
 
Why? Depends on what u are after..

Ricoh gr and Coolpix A is solution oriented to a very specific market segment. Pocketable apsc solution w/ a 28 fov w/o ovf is not a for everyone.

A ff mirrorless csc solution will never be as compact...

Price of both Ricoh and Nikon have dropped recently..if this fits what u need, why wait. The Nikon and canon are just rumors right now.

FYI, the gr is my everyday carry camera because it will fit in my front jean pocket. But when I go out shooting, I carry a csc.

Good luck
Gary
 
Kwesi said:
What if the new Nikon came with a fixed 24-85 manual zoom AF lens at 1699?
would you consider it a homerun?
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Well if it was small it might do OK.

I think we are headed in to a new world.

What is an great FF EVIL supposed to be? Sony seems to have decided it's supposed to be almost as big a body as DSLR + DSLR sized zooms.

Their sensor stack is so problematic, even their own glass has problems with it, LOL. They actually made a big point how versatile the A7 was going to be, as if the total lack of lenses was not an issue for this reason. I feel for this hook, line, and sinker, but ended up returning the A7r after extensive testing. First camera I ever returned. My A7 is a lot better, but still mostly gathers dust.

Since the first Leica prototypes, the best camera has been the one you got on hand, right? I will give Sony a lot of credit for the RX-1, which is probably the best still camera they've ever made. Ruined for me by terrible MF feel combined with primitive AF.

But it's something that begs to be TAKEN.

As the Cell phones eat up the P&S market, your FF rig better be special. DSLRs are mature to the point of rot. That market is covered like a pool in winter.

What we do not have is a great compact and adaptable field camera. And with everyone online, the concept of small superb lenses is driving buzz, even before most know who makes them. Think of all those extreme sports youtube videos. What FF will you take jumping off a mountain in a wing suit? Or more to the point, which will you climb, and ski and mountain bike with?

What was the most impactful sony still camera ever? The nex-5. The asian lens buffs adopted that camera on day one and within a month of release you could buy chinese adapters to ANY mount.

Such a cool camera, and so small. A measure of the current Sony corporate incompetence is that this revolutionary camera is now called the "A5000". They made an incredible brand and flushed it down the toilet. You just can't make that up.

Imagine a FF Nex-6 which actually does like many lenses. Somebody is going to make that camera someday. And it will become very famous. A digital Leica CL.

It is so obvious, but these dinosaurs can't seem to adapt. Apparently the A7 project was cancelled twice. That's how tiny and shortsighted the corporate brain truly is LOL

As for Leica themselves, they still cannot get over how the CL killed the M5, so we can't expect a great EVIL FF from them!
 
I think the a6000 was the proper update IMHO for the nex6. I have had the nex5n w/ the external evf. If it wasn't for the detestable Sony UI including the crappy menu system I might have gone w/ Nex 6 or 7. As for the a5000 and/or a5100, not interested...I also consider it a step down.

I bought into the 5n as my default legacy lens digital back. Now the a7 is being used for that along w/ the a6000. I still have the 5n because there are some legacy lenses that it still does better. I personally believe it was more luck then intent on Sony's part that the Sony 5n worked so well w/ so many different lenses though.

Gary
 
Forgot to mention.. For me I would love to c a ff Nex 7 type camera for the tri-nav setup. Yes a digital CL indeed :p.

Gary
 
GaryLH said:
I personally believe it was more luck then intent on Sony's part that the Sony 5n worked so well w/ so many different lenses though.

Gary
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You are totally right, starting with the plain 5, which was basically just as good. They loved it's success and how it was adapted, but could they give the craze much more than lip service? No, under it all they just dreamed of cornering their own lens market LOL

Fuji has actually succeeded with this model, if you like auto-focus cameras that look like rangefinders.....any many do. They out-nexed the nex!
 
Once upon a time i had FF only and thought nothing could be better, well that belief sunk with the first APSC i bought, then the M8, then the X100, then M43rds, then the DP2M and throw in the Pentax MX-1, all of which i still own, (well my son thinks the M8 and X100 are now his)......good luck Nikon, not interested anymore.
 
Addy101 said:
Where do you base your optimism on?
If it is good, it will hurt Sony, but if it is anything like the Canon EOS M - well, it won't be that good. We have to wait and see.
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Hi Addy.

Purely on my own Nikon experience ... they make the odd dud but it's rare IMO.

Also their latest cameras ... D4, DF etc seem to be very good sensor wise and even after four years my D700 still amazes me.

I realise this doesn't necessarily translate into a good mirrorless but you asked about the source of my optomism! :D
 
GaryLH said:
If it wasn't for the detestable Sony UI including the crappy menu system I might have gone w/ Nex 6 or 7..
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Somehow, I've learned to live with it. My 6 is set up so (quick-navi, and custom button settings) that it does what it needs to do with minimal poking around in the 'menus'. Sure, the menus could have been structured better, but all in all I find it a minor distractor given that everything else is where I need it to be, and the camera is an absolute joy to use..
 
never really understood focus on 'menus'. when fuji x100 came out this was huge criticism; and it has dogged sony for years. put aside the fact that i personally thought the fuji menu system the easiest i ever used, why the constant 'menu diving'? imo one needs quick access to iso, ss and aperture, maybe exposure comp. i also see the need for quick access to focus aids. so with all the customizable buttons, ive not had the slightest issue with any digi. set the camera up once and its the rare time one needs to go back in. certainly a menu system would never deter me from a camera that meshes with my favorite lenses and produces results i like.
 
rbelyell said:
why the constant 'menu diving'? imo one needs quick access to iso, ss and aperture, maybe exposure comp.
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I used to complain about this until I realized that I rarely go into the menus except to format my SD card (after initial set-up).
 
It remains to be seen if Nikon's leadership has the wherewithal to turn it's massive internal bureaucracy upside down. I think a slowly introduced, purposefully handicapped mirrorless FX product line would be a massive failure.

I say good riddance to Nikkor F mount lenses.

While my experience with film bodies was somewhat different, my six Fujinon XF primes outperform all but one Nikkor prime (AI, AIS, AFS and G) I used on a D200/D300/D700 bodies. I owned or used about a dozen of theses. The XF 10-24/4 zoom is much better than the DX and FX Nikkor zooms with similar fields of view. The only Nikkor lens I miss is the 105/2.5 AI lens. That lens was special on all my DX and FX bodies.
 
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