Hasselblad X2D, Just out. M11 Killer?

jsrockit said:
I think if anything, the big money Leica users will just have both. As for using Hasselblad in the streets, that is nothing new. People have done that before.
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But not with the X2D's ease of use and speed in use. Those are the selling points that I see. And it has the great Hasselblad quality and image. It has caused a small commotion in a small corner of the world. I will be watching it closely.
 
boojum said:
It is hard to say how much of the Venn diagram overlap there is between the two camps. And it is harder to know how much of a draw on the Leica followers the X2D will be. Looking at the specs and at the functions offered and the color palette of the Hasselblad color engine, I consider the X2D a better way to get a photo. Autofocus alone will guarantee that. That's a fact. If you have worked with rangefinders and autofocus you know which has the better batting average.

As a highly unreliable indicator I see that at B&H the X2D is the [NODE="1"]n[/NODE]umber 1 best seller. No such talk about the M11. But, the M11 has been out for a long time and may have had its sales slow down as a result. You may be right, the Hasselblad will not much affect Leica. It has not in the past. But it did not have the X2D in the past. Hasselblad is moving from the studio to the street. If I were buying I think I would prefer the X2D to the M11. I say this because I do not believe the M11 is delivering as high a quality image as the X2D. This is from what I have read and what I have seen on the FB user groups. The M11 does not have the features either. The X2D delivers a grand image at ISO 25600. I couldn't see any noise and the detail and color were exquisite.

So let's see what Leica can respond with. The gorilla in the room is the increasing encroachment of cell phone cameras. They may gobble up the market where full frame cameras live. The next few years will be interesting.
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boojum said:
But not with the X2D's ease of use and speed in use. Those are the selling points that I see. And it has the great Hasselblad quality and image. It has caused a small commotion in a small corner of the world. I will be watching it closely.
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I think you're still missing the point of the X2D and M11 and their respective markets.

Specs and functions and colour engines and autofocus have never been the selling point of a digital M. There have been countless full-frame dSLR's that have outperformed each generation of M rangefinder by these metrics, usually at far less than half the price. Mass-market autofocus has been around since the '80s... Logically, a digital M has not been the 'best' way to get a photo for decades. This is why almost no working professionals use one.

But what a M does provide is a optical/mechanical rangefinder/viewfinder, tiny mechanical lenses and a particular brand cachet and heritage that is not matched by anyone else in the photography world (including Hasselblad/DJI).

As for cell phone cameras... I'd happily bet a 6 pack that no one considering their phone as an alternative to an M11.
 
nickthetasmaniac said:
I think you're still missing the point of the X2D and M11 and their respective markets.

Specs and functions and colour engines and autofocus have never been the selling point of a digital M. There have been countless full-frame dSLR's that have outperformed each generation of M rangefinder by these metrics, usually at far less than half the price. Mass-market autofocus has been around since the '80s... Logically, a digital M has not been the 'best' way to get a photo for decades. This is why almost no working professionals use one.

But what a M does provide is a optical/mechanical rangefinder/viewfinder, tiny mechanical lenses and a particular brand cachet and heritage that is not matched by anyone else in the photography world (including Hasselblad/DJI).

As for cell phone cameras... I'd happily bet a 6 pack that no one considering their phone as an alternative to an M11.
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You go for heritage, I'll go for images. I have four Leicas. But for the M8.2 B&W and the M9 color I am unimpressed. They are functional anachronisms. Many if not most here like the 100 year old functional anachronism way more than I. Photography is not a Renaissance Faire for me. I'd do it whole hog if it were and go with wet plate. As it is I am not at all interested in reliving history. I am interested in the finest possible image, one finer than the M9.

While it is an interesting aside I do not think I supposed the cell phone would dislodge the M11. It is a threat to full frame in general. Some cell phones have some high pixel sensors. 100 megapixels is a fact today: https://cameraphonereport.com/highes...-camera-phone/ and they are not worrying about how it affects Leica users you can be sure. In the camera market the Leica users' market share is trivial. IIRC <5%, maybe 2%. With this trivial market share and the devoted though very small following, cell phones will make little difference. It will affect others a great deal.

But back to the X2D, for less than an M11 with a lens, it will deliver more photos more often and better photos more often. That's what I am about. I do not say you should not buy and use Leicas. What I am saying is that they are options.
 
boojum said:
You go for heritage, I'll go for images. I have four Leicas. But for the M8.2 B&W and the M9 color I am unimpressed. They are functional anachronisms. Many if not most here like the 100 year old functional anachronism way more than I. Photography is not a Renaissance Faire for me. I'd do it whole hog if it were and go with wet plate. As it is I am not at all interested in reliving history. I am interested in the finest possible image, one finer than the M9.
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Great, good for you, I'm glad you know what you like etc. etc. (although as mentioned earlier, I still don't understand why you have four Leicas if you don't like anachronisms...)

But what *you* like has nothing to do with the X2D being a 'Leica killer', which was the whole premise of the thread that *you* started. They are clearly targeting different markets, and from everything you've said you are in the Hassy market.

...
But back to the X2D, for less than an M11 with a lens, it will deliver more photos more often and better photos more often.
...
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So will a D800, but that didn't kill Leica 10 years ago and the X2D won't kill Leica now...
 
nickthetasmaniac said:
Great, good for you, I'm glad you know what you like etc. etc. (although as mentioned earlier, I still don't understand why you have four Leicas if you don't like anachronisms...)

But what *you* like has nothing to do with the X2D being a 'Leica killer', which was the whole premise of the thread that *you* started. They are clearly targeting different markets, and from everything you've said you are in the Hassy market.



So will a D800, but that didn't kill Leica 10 years ago and the X2D won't kill Leica now...
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I bought the M8.2 for the sensor, the M9 for the sensor, the M240 for what I had hoped would be a better sensor and the second M240 as a gift for a friend who was so disappointed in the camera he mailed it back after a couple of months. He has been a photographer for ~60 years.

Point well taken. But, the D800 is not a medium format Hasellblad with 100MP and exquisite color and definition. This is my point, the image.

at 25600: https://www.facebook.com/photo/?fbid...13315615692635

https://www.facebook.com/photo?fbid=...32032160487647

at 64: https://abadenhorst.prodibi.com/a/d44kwmxxl6ew84r

It's about the image. The D800 cannot come close to these. Show me better images. This is why I like the X2D: better images. We're taking photos right? If you are happy with a not as good image which is more difficult to get, have at it. I am not saying you should not buy a Leica. I am saying there are other choices. And that is all I have ever said.
 
jsrockit said:
So, when does your new Hassy arrive? You must consummate the love affair while it is hot!
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I do not have one. But as I have said so many times I would prefer it to an M11. They are tools. I believe the X2D is the finer tool. The images posted bear that out. This ain't rocket surgery.
 
boojum said:
I do not have one. But as I have said so many times I would prefer it to an M11. They are tools. I believe the X2D is the finer tool. The images posted bear that out. This ain't rocket surgery.
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We know you don't like the M11 because you determined (somehow) that the sensor in your M9 was better than the sensor in the M11, so an M11 was never in the running. The choice between an M11 and an X2D has always been phony. And "rocket surgery"? What is rocket surgery?
 
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