bob_summers
Member
I think many people here are struggling to grasp that the Pixii camera is about making use of what's available (from the phone you invariably have in your pocket, to hundreds of lovely old lenses) and possibly has more in common with this than an M11 or R-D1
dct
perpetual amateur
You might be right, because there are many "lens-only" makes, as 3rd party manufacturer for well known lens mounts.
But the opposite is rare. I remember only the Finepix S series by Fuji, which addressed Nikon F lens owners, spotting the exact same F mount and with compatible electronics. But Fujifilm didn't deliver any own F mount lenses, AFAIK.
nickthetasmaniac
Mentor
Yokosuka_Mike
Abstract Clarity
Out to Lunch
Menteur
Which is also what is keeping people from buying this camera. I don't think that the rangefinder/multiple m-mount lenses + instant connectivity through an app to social media appeals to many. Cheers, OtL
bob_summers
Member
Sure, the concept is going to be lost on many, and then there's the crop. Speaking for myself, it delivers* everything I need - decent app/connectivity, using my favourite lenses, and nothing I don't - video, screen, buttons...
Whether there are enough people like me to keep Pixii afloat, I don't know. I hope so, because they're to be applauded in getting this camera on the market.
*In theory. Mine doesn't arrive til next week.
Whether there are enough people like me to keep Pixii afloat, I don't know. I hope so, because they're to be applauded in getting this camera on the market.
*In theory. Mine doesn't arrive til next week.
Out to Lunch
Menteur
Since it's the only available digital m-mount camera in existence, apart from the costly Leica's -and I'm beginning to wonder how long they'll make them, I wish Pixxii all the best. More importantly, I hope you'll have a blast using yours. Cheers, OtL
Canon went for a couple of decades making cameras and relying on Nikon to make the optics.
My Nikkor-SC 5cm F1.5 came on a Canon III. The 5cm F2 Serenar was in production at the time, but the Nikkor is far better. The original buyer knew his stuff.
I picked up the Serenar for $60 at a camera show. Needed a good CLA- the coatings and glass are all near-perfect.
My Nikkor-SC 5cm F1.5 came on a Canon III. The 5cm F2 Serenar was in production at the time, but the Nikkor is far better. The original buyer knew his stuff.
I picked up the Serenar for $60 at a camera show. Needed a good CLA- the coatings and glass are all near-perfect.
boojum
Mentor
I know I am not the sharpest knife on the tree but it is a solid camera with good color and IQ. Why isn't that enough?
bob_summers
Member
I think it is. Especially for me, having only ever shot mechanical film cameras, with the odd exception to confirm exactly what I don't need a camera to do.
TL7
Member
Ya see..
Its the same exact complaint w/LLL...
They are ripping off old designs that other companies blood sweat and tears were shed to come up with the designs....so..they are... not making the entire commitment to actually be a real camera company and coming up with their own designs..and/or..have a camera body or 2 to go w/their lenses..
Or..even..farm out such to another company..like..Pixxi...lol..
Pixii is the exact reverse of this ...RF cams..but no lenses.. to bring them up to a real comera company status..
Hence the mistrust..
But I'm a happy owner of 2 LLL lenses..and will buy more..
But that said..
Facts..are ...facts..
And if you are going to charge the big $$$ for your products..then maybe stepping up to the plate more is a good idea..
Sigma used to be crap..and look at them today..
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Coldkennels
Barnack-toting Brit.
I don't think it's the exact same complaint at all.
A lot of fervent LLL-hate comes from people who only see China and hate them for that reason alone, with a lot of discussion around them being the sort of thing that wouldn't be out of place coming from Senator McCarthy himself. After all, Skyllaney are basically recreating a Sonnar in the same way LLL recreated the 8-Element Summicron, but they didn't get anything like the same sort of hatred and ire. In fact, one poster even waxed lyrical about the ingenuity of Scottish engineering... despite the fact Skyllaney are only based in Scotland and don't originate from there.
I'm pretty sure if Pixii were Chinese and not French, people would be piling on the hatred for that reason, and not the "crop factor"/APS-C sized sensor and electronic shutter (which are legitimate reasons to not want a Pixii, even if some people refuse to accept that).
TL7
Member
Its not Chinese hate..
People always like to pull the race card..
LLL ripped off Leica pure and simple..and Cooke too...those are the facts..
..basically..too lazy to come up with their own designs..that would require too much effort..
But that said..a certain Chinese friend of mine...an LLL dealer overseas in Asia..hates LLL's guts..really hates them..
Why..he is a serious lens collector and photographer..and hates the 50% defect rate..and the outright thievery too...he made a point of saying that to me one day..and it surprised me..
But I had to admit..its the truth..facts.
He told me recently..dont buy the LLL Cooke Panchro lens..buy the vintage Cooke as its way better..
But if you want....I'll sell you the LLL Panchro imitation...but its not as good.
We are friends and he was willing to give up the sale for the truth. He didnt have to do that as I was all set to buy the LLL Panchro.
People always like to pull the race card..
LLL ripped off Leica pure and simple..and Cooke too...those are the facts..
..basically..too lazy to come up with their own designs..that would require too much effort..
But that said..a certain Chinese friend of mine...an LLL dealer overseas in Asia..hates LLL's guts..really hates them..
Why..he is a serious lens collector and photographer..and hates the 50% defect rate..and the outright thievery too...he made a point of saying that to me one day..and it surprised me..
But I had to admit..its the truth..facts.
He told me recently..dont buy the LLL Cooke Panchro lens..buy the vintage Cooke as its way better..
But if you want....I'll sell you the LLL Panchro imitation...but its not as good.
We are friends and he was willing to give up the sale for the truth. He didnt have to do that as I was all set to buy the LLL Panchro.
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Coldkennels
Barnack-toting Brit.
It's not a race thing - I explicitly didn't mention race or racism once.
It's a Red Scare hangover. That's all it is.
People were okay with a Japanese company buying a German brand and manufacturing lenses with iconic names and lens designs - no one questioned that. And "Zeiss wobble" or all the early LTM Voigtlander lenses with irreparable haze? Teething problems at best.
Similarly, an American working in Scotland can make a direct copy of a Sonnar (too lazy to come up with his own designs!), and he was immediately lorded for the work he put in, even though only pre-production prototypes have gone out to a select few so far.
But when a Chinese guy (by which we really mean "Communist") does it? IP theft. Copies. Intrinsically sloppy. Low standards. Untrustworthy.
Same thing happened with the Soviets; look at how many people still call Kievs a "Russian" rangefinder (the clue's in the name, folks), or how FEDs and Zorkis are merely considered to be "Leica copies", while LTM Canons are usually heralded on their own merits. Or how the differences between Soviet LTM and real LTM was put down to "bad workmanship", but the differences between Nikon RF and Contax RF lenses (which were caused by the same problem) were acknowledged, understood, and not criticised.
Like I alluded to, McCarthy still has a huge influence on how otherwise logical people approach things to this day.
I know first-hand what went into the design of the Bertele Sonnar. A lot of hard work and dedication was involved. The barrel and mount is an all-new design. Recreating 90 year old optics- I know what went into it.
Whether Chinese, French, Japanese, German, UK, Russian, USA or other- the Nationality has nothing to do with the image that is formed at the plane of focus. It is the work of the engineers that makes the camera and lens work. Pixii pulled off the near-impossible for a new start-up. The same with Skyllaney. The same with DJ Optical, under 7Artisans and TTartisans brands. There is nothing special about the design of the rangefinder mechanism that is outside the capabilities of a Chinese optical company to fabricate and incorporate into a working digital camera. Somebody there just has to want to, and have the financial backing pull it off.
Whether Chinese, French, Japanese, German, UK, Russian, USA or other- the Nationality has nothing to do with the image that is formed at the plane of focus. It is the work of the engineers that makes the camera and lens work. Pixii pulled off the near-impossible for a new start-up. The same with Skyllaney. The same with DJ Optical, under 7Artisans and TTartisans brands. There is nothing special about the design of the rangefinder mechanism that is outside the capabilities of a Chinese optical company to fabricate and incorporate into a working digital camera. Somebody there just has to want to, and have the financial backing pull it off.
boojum
Mentor
My argument is unchanged, it is a solid camera and takes great pictures. Why isn't that enough? As for Skyllaney, I wonder how the Bertele would work on a Pixii.
Yokosuka_Mike
Abstract Clarity
Coldkennels
Barnack-toting Brit.
Because there's countless "solid cameras" that take "great pictures".
If all that matters were "great pictures", why are any of us using rangefinders at all when we could just use an iPhone? The new ones truly take "great pictures".
Hell, we could have all been just using 5DMkII instead of buying M9s when that came out. After all, the 5DMkII was "solid" and took "great pictures".
Instead, we're a community that still - STILL - argues about whether the M2 or M3 is the best M almost 70 years after they were released, or whether the M5 was truly the worst thing Leica ever did or a huge technological step forward that was misunderstood and underappreciated. Small UX differences matter to the rangefinder faithful, and the Pixii - while it can truly take "great pictures" - falls short of what a lot of rangefinder users want and care about.
nickthetasmaniac
Mentor
To be fair, there’s been several pages now discussing exactly that topic after you raised it earlier in the thread. You may not agree or share other people’s preferences, but surely the question has been answered?