Rayt
Nonplayer Character
While I love my M10M at the same time I am in agreement with this statement when the hood blocks a fifth of the viewfinder and the most comfortable focal lengths are still the 35mm and 50mm. It’s all nostalgia. Give me a monochrom SL2 and I’ll be all over it.
Godfrey
somewhat colored
I somehow doubt this will happen. The audience for actual RF cameras is pretty slim (most people want EVF cameras with a similar form factor, it seems) and used Leica M digital cameras (M9, M240, M262, even a couple of M10) can be had for the next lower price tier ($1500 to $2900).
I have returned to using M most of the time because my eyesight has changed a little ... I now have difficulties using the CL in sunlit conditions because my eyes don't adapt to the EVF screen illumination as well now. But I don't know how many others there are with a similar issue still wishing to pursue photography with a rangefinder camera.
G
keytarjunkie
no longer addicted
The people commenting that they won't buy anything from China just make me laugh. If you are reading this forum on a smartphone or computer, that device was almost certainly made in China. Get over yourselves.
(FWIW I am vehemently against the CCP.)
(FWIW I am vehemently against the CCP.)
Hi
This is my unedited comment in post 12 in this thread:
Could you kindly direct me to the part wherein I stated that I "won't buy anything from China"?
Failing that—are you deliberately trolling, or merely obtuse?
keytarjunkie
no longer addicted
I'm merely obtuse. So you are fine with purchasing cheap appliances and clothing from China, but you would never buy a camera from a Chinese company? I find it interesting that you appear to own at least one German camera produced shortly after their government murdered millions of innocent people in one of the greatest atrocities in all of history, but would never buy a camera produced by a Chinese company. Since I am so extraordinarily stupid, please explain this position to me in simple terms so I might understand.
Hmm, I didn't say that, either. But it seems we have found agreement on one point at least.
My original comment, again, quoted above, unedited since I made it, was carefully and precisely worded. It does not state, or imply, either of the highlighted assertions you have made. It is a nuanced comment, but it is not opaque. It means no more, or less, than it states at face value.
As to WW2 era cameras made in Germany. I don't know what time zone you're located in; but as I write this it's the 2nd of August 2022. I'd very much like to know how any discretionary spending I make in the 21st Century might have the slightest bearing on events which occurred circa 1933–1945.
Last edited:
keytarjunkie
no longer addicted
What is the appropriate amount of time to wait to buy a product from a country which committed mass atrocities? Seriously asking. How long do I have to wait? What if the product in question was used by the military while they were committing war crimes? What if there's a big engraving of a...um, nevermind.
I think it's very easy for you to assume a position of moral superiority - I'd never buy a camera from a Chinese company because their government is bad, okay. I admit that I am about to assume a lot about you: that you probably participate in a Western style society, drive a car, use a phone, have a home full of furnishings and a closet with clothing. Probably more of that than you think was produced in China. We are all surrounded by it. If you want to boycott China, look, I wouldn't disagree with the sentiment. I just think it's futile unless you want to go live as a hermit (also a nice option).
I did not really want to get into this; politics per se are generally meant to be off limits in this forum. But as you continue to probe.
If we might set aside obvious exemplars or artefacts of the Nazi regime, or objects connected with certain notorious locations, for hopefully obvious reasons—surely, the issue is not with physical objects generally manufactured in a certain country during a certain period, per se. Rather it is with a regime, government, military force etc. Yes?
OK. My present concern is with the human rights violations being perpetrated right now, in 2022, which are sanctioned by the government of China. I will not go into detail about these, because (a) they are too numerous to easily do so and: (b) reliable information about them is not that hard to find for anybody outside of China, who wishes to look for it.
Boycotting China? I'm Australian, China is Australia's biggest trading partner. To try and live an ordinary daily life here without interacting with their products, to any extent, I would say is impossible. I cannot do that, (and to be fair never said, or implied I could, or would). What I can, however do as a consumer is to consider the options available to me if they exist when I purchase items, and choose accordingly when I can, and in my daily life my wife and I actively do this. I'm disappointed to have had to spell all this out—I believe my choice of words in my original comment conveyed it succinctly and clearly. How I exercise my discretionary spending is a matter of conscience for me. It's not a question of moral superiority. To me at least, it's a moral imperative.
Yokosuka_Mike
Abstract Clarity
My money, my choice!
All the best,
Mike
All the best,
Mike
spb_ch
Member
Made in China according to B & H. At that price they can keep it.
spb_ch
Member
Could not agree more with you.
It has a weird design and is too expensive for what it is. This thread is about a cheaper mechanical rangefinder digital camera made by a Chinese company. If I simply wanted a cheap rangefinder shaped camera, we both currently use those.
Maybe not but that is not hard to assume. If it is going to happen, it would have to be a Chinese company.
I do not know, but some people like that kind of thing. Every company makes an app these days. I have used the Fuji one as a remote shutter release.
spb_ch
Member
Even Leica have an app that allows you to trigger electronically the camera. In some situations like on a tripod for long exposures it is quite 'convenient' to trigger from an app. Although I rather use a dedicated remote controller than a phone any day.
f.hayek
Well-known
Considering the precision required to build and calibrate such devices and the indifference to QC by PRC manufacturers (like the DIY adjustment tool the "Artisan" lines provide, or LLL issues), a RF coming from mainland China is about as likely as a free election over yonder.
Those here who take such joy in their products appear to derive half the satisfaction from the almost-inconceivably low prices. This comes with a durability and quality cost perhaps inapparent upon purchase.
Those here who take such joy in their products appear to derive half the satisfaction from the almost-inconceivably low prices. This comes with a durability and quality cost perhaps inapparent upon purchase.
I hear what you are saying, but how about all of the cheap film rangefinders made in the past? They could not all have been calibrated with precision. I guess film hid those inconsistencies?
raid
Dad Photographer
OK, but what about South Korea. Could it get into this market too? Its cars are everywhere seen in the USA, why not make digital RF cameras too? Just a thought!
Ko.Fe.
Lenses 35/21 Gears 46/20
The only China made cameras I have are old GRDs. I don't have any MIC lenses. Not sure I want to support economy of dictatorship state more than this.
But I pay enough for MIC via Amazon anyway.
I'd rather pay for used digital M, if would have to look for digital RF again.
I wouldn't mind Pixii, but their x1.5 sensor renders lenses useless to me.
But I pay enough for MIC via Amazon anyway.
I'd rather pay for used digital M, if would have to look for digital RF again.
I wouldn't mind Pixii, but their x1.5 sensor renders lenses useless to me.
Ko.Fe.
Lenses 35/21 Gears 46/20
EVF placement in the corner has absolutely nothing to do with optical FV/RF. Any EVF is dirt cheap to made comparing to OVF/RF.
And (IMO) experience differs accordingly.
Every time I look into M-E220, M4-2 VF/RF it is totally natural, while EVF is most of the time just meh.
Pairing any digital camera with mobile phones allows to post better images on social media instantly, which is (IMO) dummy achievement most of the time, but not always.
I was taking pictures of Milky Way, the only way I could take it was with real camera, not mobile phone. But I still have to find time to share it on social media.
aw614
Established
I kind of don't expect a Chinese company to make a digital RF, but part of me does kind of wish that TTArtisan or 7artisan would make some of their M Mount lenses in LTM mount. Often wondered why they haven't, I guess the market doesn't warrant it, but it would be nice to have more options that aren't 50+ years old and hoping the lens I buy is as advertised without haze and fungus...
aizan
Mentor
Critics of the German and Japanese camera industries said the same stuff when they were in a similar position as China's. Nothing new here.
The politics are largely irrelevant. The important thing is whether there's a sufficient market for a cheaper digital M-mount rangefinder. Pixii thinks there is one, and I would tend to agree.
The politics are largely irrelevant. The important thing is whether there's a sufficient market for a cheaper digital M-mount rangefinder. Pixii thinks there is one, and I would tend to agree.