Leica M8: Poor mans M Monochrome?

jaapv said:
I have compared the MM against both the M9 and M8 as I own all three of them .For black and white I would rate them MM-gap-M8-M9.
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thanks for this comment. it really sums up the comparison well and serves as a useful bit of info per my future camera options.
 
leicashot said:
No worries at all Cam. All good....I just wish people would not forget that if we were all in a room together we'd all be concentrating on enjoying each other's company, instead of trying to be correct over the next person.
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i like your comment. yea, the internet has its benefits AND detriments. when threads go haywire (and i mean much more than this one), it always seems people are treating others so differently than they would in person ... perhaps, because, while upsetting someone online can lead to an insulting return post, upsetting someone in person can lead to a fist/beer in the face. ah, life ...
 
none of this would have happened if people didn't get their panties in a twist about other people's valid opinions...
 
jaapv said:
I have compared the MM against both the M9 and M8 as I own all three of them .For black and white I would rate them MM-gap-M8-M9.
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Thanks Jaap - that's what I thought would be the case.

The significance of these comparison threads isn't some stupid camera point-scoring, it's about helping people who can't afford a Monochrom to make the next-best purchase decision.
 
Depends on what you want. With the filter the image is marginally sharper, without there is a change in tonal response.
 
raphaelaaron said:
Man, I just bought an M9 and now after reading this thread I'm considering not selling my M8.2

decisions... :(
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I wouldn't bother...this only became an issue on this thread. Prior to this how much had we heard about this topic besides the IR differences?

People are welcome to prove me wrong, but like I said earlier, the differences in people's skills to match the camera's files is where the biggest differences lie.
 
leicashot said:
I wouldn't bother...this only became an issue on this thread. Prior to this how much had we heard about this topic besides the IR differences?
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For the record, the OP eleskin had previously posted several threads about this topic that I can remember and there are numerous posts scattered here and there, if not threads, by others who have described how they chose the M8 (usually an M8.2) over the M9 for black and white.
 
noimmunity said:
For the record, the OP eleskin had previously posted several threads about this topic that I can remember and there are numerous posts scattered here and there, if not threads, by others who have described how they chose the M8 (usually an M8.2) over the M9 for black and white.
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Was it not for shooting IR, or just focused on standard black and white. I'm failing to see how the M8 would better than the M9 for regular black and white....and more so as to why people take either outcome so personally.
 
From what I have seen, the MM is visibly superior to the M8/M9, but between the M8 and the M9, a slight edge (pun intended) in acutance goes to the M8. One year from now, when people really know how to use filters and PP to get the most out of MM files, that difference will probably only increase (not a comment on current users' skills but rather a recognition of the beehive intelligence).

OT, I'd add that my own usage shows me so far that the DP2 Merrill is visibly superior to the M8 for black and white. Would love to see one of those cameras in capable hands such as those of Kristian or some of the other folks posting images in the Monchrom thread!
 
noimmunity said:
OT, I'd add that my own usage shows me so far that the DP2 Merrill is visibly superior to the M8 for black and white. Would love to see one of those cameras in capable hands such as those of Kristian or some of the other folks posting images in the Monchrom thread!
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i had the original DP1 and and the b/w was, indeed, spectacular, especially at lower ISO. unfortunately, it was such a miserable non-reponsive camera to use i just gave up. i am a huge fan of Foveon sensor, though.

i remember my dream camera at the time was an R-D1 with a Foveon sensor and quieter shutter. come to think of it, i still wouldn't mind one!
 
raphaelaaron said:
Man, I just bought an M9 and now after reading this thread I'm considering not selling my M8.2

decisions... :(
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i only kept my M8 (original) because i had upgraded the shutter and there was no way i would ever recoup the monies. it has been a godsend, though, as my M9 was in service a lot this and it allowed me to continue shooting on a rangefinder without going back to film.

it's also great when if i want to shoot action as the buffer is bigger and it's nice, sometimes, to shoot different focal lengths (because of the crop). and i do love its b/w.

that said, i still pick up the M9 when i go out the door.
 
leicashot said:
I'm failing to see how the M8 would better than the M9 for regular black and white....and more so as to why people take either outcome so personally.
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The increased IR sensitivity, together with the thinner filter makes a difference in the tonal separation of the final black and white image. This means that gradients are more subtly rendered, (caucasian) skin tones are more pleasing, and fine details are better defined.

The greater local contrast in fine detail (such as hair, for instance) actually works to negate the negligible loss of sharpness from IR contamination - so notwithstanding Jaap's earlier comment, the M8 image without filter will still appear sharper than the M9 image.

I actually don't give a toss which camera people prefer - but it matters to me when participants here are not only casually dismissive of other's opinions and personal experiences, but actually wear their own ignorance of the matter under discussion with pride. The reasons why the M8 makes for a better b&w camera have been enumerated many times on this thread now (and countless times elsewhere), so if you have evidence to the contrary then by all means feel free to share it.

I don't consider myself a gearhead by any means, but when I'm assessing a potential purchase (a car, a stereo system, a camera) then these objective discussions are really useful. Naturally I'm fully aware that the photographer is the greatest qualitative element in the final image, but this is irrelevant in discussions purely about the technical capabilities of a given piece of equipment.
 
cam said:
i had the original DP1 and and the b/w was, indeed, spectacular, especially at lower ISO. unfortunately, it was such a miserable non-reponsive camera to use i just gave up. i am a huge fan of Foveon sensor, though.

i remember my dream camera at the time was an R-D1 with a Foveon sensor and quieter shutter. come to think of it, i still wouldn't mind one!
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Now THAT would be a camera to die for!



I have never used the original DP1 so I cannot comment there, but I wouldn't characterize the new DP2M as unresponsive. It is not the fastest-gun-in-the-West, that's for sure. I enjoy using it immensely.

Given how the Foveon sensor is constructed in layers, it would seem to me, a total bleeding layman, that the sensor might do very well with the sharply oblique angle of light coming through M lenses that has been the bane of so many Bayer CFA sensors. But of course that only matters for color.

Even at high ISOs, the black and white rendition of the DP2M can be quite attractive.

(we now return you to your regularly scheduled thread topic...)
 
leicashot said:
No worries at all Cam. All good....I just wish people would not forget that if we were all in a room together we'd all be concentrating on enjoying each other's company, instead of trying to be correct over the next person.
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you mostly hit the nail on the head about why i probably won't post pictures. in both instances of using the camera, the company was more important than the camera -- and the best shots i got were of that person. (and i don't tend to share personal photos).

com to think of it, it would have been great fun to shoot this conversation :D
 
You know, guys: There`s always these discussions...Also in real life, between enthusiasts. You listen to a guy, but seeing his IMAGES... you think: Do I really believe anything this guy is saying...
 
Rangefinderfreak said:
You know, guys: There`s always these discussions...Also in real life, between enthusiasts. You listen to a guy, but seeing his IMAGES... you think: Do I really believe anything this guy is saying...
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So a bad photographer is always wrong - even about externally verifiable facts?
This attitude is why internet discussion is so often utterly useless. :bang:
 
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