Steve M.
Mentor
My guess is it's a shutter issue. Every M camera I've ever owned, if it had a light leak issue, that's where the problem was.
adamjohari
Established
I have my camera loaded right now. Will finish it today if I can and will post pics later. Thanks everyone for the feedback.
Adam
Adam
shadowfox
Darkroom printing lives
Flash hot shoe loose?
Any missing screw that can let light in?
Any missing screw that can let light in?
Niko
Established
Mr_Flibble
In Tabulas Argenteas Refero
I have this same problem too sometimes with my M3 DS. It looks like light coming in from the top somewhere in front of film plane and shutter. The straight horizontal edge on the negative suggest to me that the light hits the baffles.
As it is between the frames too I would imagine it only happens when advancing the film. Maybe light leaks between the curtain edges when they travel across the film plane as the shutter is cocked.
So I kept the lens cap on between advances and always turned the lever slowly. This appears to have worked for me so far.
As it is between the frames too I would imagine it only happens when advancing the film. Maybe light leaks between the curtain edges when they travel across the film plane as the shutter is cocked.
So I kept the lens cap on between advances and always turned the lever slowly. This appears to have worked for me so far.
sreed2006
Well-known
My M3 DS had light leaks where the shutter cloth was pulling away from the metal end of the curtain. The hole in the curtain was quite visible when I advanced the film. The curtain had to be replaced. (The camera had not been used for years before I bought it.)
My M4 had light leaks in the curtain that could be seen by shining a flashlight into the front of the camera and looking at the curtain from the rear of the camera, in a dimly lit room. There were dozens of pin-holes in the curtain, even though the curtain looked fine in normal lighting. Using the flashlight, the curtain looked more like a screendoor than a curtain. That curtain had to be replaced, too. (This camera, too, had sat nearly unused for decades before I bought it.)
Get a small but powerful flashlight (torch), turn down the room lights, take the lens off the camera, open the back, and shine the light into the camera's front while looking at the shutter curtains from the back. Use the film wind lever as if advancing the film, and inspect the curtains as they move across the gate. Tiny little holes will show up easily with this method - and they can cause problems. Any light that comes through while winding the advance lever is a leak.
There's information on the web about how to repair small holes with liquid electricians tape, or other liquids that can permanently fill in the hole. Big holes and tears require curtain replacement.
My M4 had light leaks in the curtain that could be seen by shining a flashlight into the front of the camera and looking at the curtain from the rear of the camera, in a dimly lit room. There were dozens of pin-holes in the curtain, even though the curtain looked fine in normal lighting. Using the flashlight, the curtain looked more like a screendoor than a curtain. That curtain had to be replaced, too. (This camera, too, had sat nearly unused for decades before I bought it.)
Get a small but powerful flashlight (torch), turn down the room lights, take the lens off the camera, open the back, and shine the light into the camera's front while looking at the shutter curtains from the back. Use the film wind lever as if advancing the film, and inspect the curtains as they move across the gate. Tiny little holes will show up easily with this method - and they can cause problems. Any light that comes through while winding the advance lever is a leak.
There's information on the web about how to repair small holes with liquid electricians tape, or other liquids that can permanently fill in the hole. Big holes and tears require curtain replacement.
Niko
Established
I did not find any hole in the curtains using the flashlight in the darkness -method. Did not find anything else either trying to use the flashlight on any location i could think of and at the same time look at the curtains from behind. Yes, also did the reverse, looked from the bayonet side too. With and without the film door and base plate.
I´ve found few discussion about very similar light leak, but none end with the solution...
Niko
I´ve found few discussion about very similar light leak, but none end with the solution...
Niko
Mr_Flibble
In Tabulas Argenteas Refero
I just tried it with a little LED flashlight in a dark room. Curtains themselves are fine, but when I shine the light at the top of the film frame at the front I get some light coming over the top of the curtain when I look at the film plane from the back. Which corresponds 'nicely' with the style of evidence on the negatives.
sreed2006
Well-known
Niko, did you advance the winding lever and watch for light leaks when the curtains were moving? Or advance only half way and check when the two ends of the curtains are mid-gate?
The curtains move at nearly the same speed as the advancing film, and the location of the leak (between frames) indicates to me that the two curtains are not completely light-tight when they move across the film gate. If you've got film in it, advance the film very slowly while aiming the lens at a light source. Put the lens cap on, and take a picture (so the light leak, if any, will be well defined on the negative). Leave the lens cap on and advance the film quickly. See if that makes a difference. Just some thoughts on how to narrow it down.
The curtains move at nearly the same speed as the advancing film, and the location of the leak (between frames) indicates to me that the two curtains are not completely light-tight when they move across the film gate. If you've got film in it, advance the film very slowly while aiming the lens at a light source. Put the lens cap on, and take a picture (so the light leak, if any, will be well defined on the negative). Leave the lens cap on and advance the film quickly. See if that makes a difference. Just some thoughts on how to narrow it down.
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Niko
Established
sreed2006, yes, that´s how i did it.
From another forum i got a tip it could be light leak near the rangefinder -window. I checked that area again with the flashlight in darkness and can see light coming in the film chamber. The light i see is right in the corner of the frame, but i guess this still could be the source of the phenomenon. The shuttercurtains still have something to do with it, as it´s always in the same spot between the frames ?
Niko
From another forum i got a tip it could be light leak near the rangefinder -window. I checked that area again with the flashlight in darkness and can see light coming in the film chamber. The light i see is right in the corner of the frame, but i guess this still could be the source of the phenomenon. The shuttercurtains still have something to do with it, as it´s always in the same spot between the frames ?
Niko
Mr_Flibble
In Tabulas Argenteas Refero
Thanks I'll check that out too. 
Another source also mentions the strap lugs being a possible source, but then the color of the leak should show up differently on the prints/scans as the light would go through the film base first instead of striking the emulsion side directly)
Another source also mentions the strap lugs being a possible source, but then the color of the leak should show up differently on the prints/scans as the light would go through the film base first instead of striking the emulsion side directly)
sreed2006
Well-known
Niko, well darn. I had hoped the light leak would be more obvious, and thus easier to fix.
Mr. Flibble, how do you go about fixing the light leak over the top of the curtain?
My M4 arrived back from Youxin Ye yesterday with a new long shutter curtain. That camera has had enough rest and pampering - time to put it to work!
Mr. Flibble, how do you go about fixing the light leak over the top of the curtain?
My M4 arrived back from Youxin Ye yesterday with a new long shutter curtain. That camera has had enough rest and pampering - time to put it to work!
Mr_Flibble
In Tabulas Argenteas Refero
I have no idea how I can fix this yet, or even if there is a fix for it. The professional repairmen here might be able to tell us more.
I simply assumed the leak occured during the film advance strokes, so I simply leave the lens cap on until I am ready to shoot. And so far I haven't seen any signs of leaks.
But! I also started to dress up the M3 DS with a leather halfcase around the same time. That might also be covering a potential leak somewhere.
I simply assumed the leak occured during the film advance strokes, so I simply leave the lens cap on until I am ready to shoot. And so far I haven't seen any signs of leaks.
But! I also started to dress up the M3 DS with a leather halfcase around the same time. That might also be covering a potential leak somewhere.
Krnome
Established
Hello! I have the same problem on my black M3! Shot my first roll on the camera - Fuji 200. I have tried the flash test - I can't see any light leaks!
I don't now what to do. Can the film be the problem? I shot with an old Elmar on an original Leica adapter - can the lens be the problem? The negatives has the same spot between each frame.
I don't now what to do. Can the film be the problem? I shot with an old Elmar on an original Leica adapter - can the lens be the problem? The negatives has the same spot between each frame.
Niko
Established
I can confirm that in my case the leak came in around the small rangefinder -window, nothing to do with the shutter, or lens or anything else. Someone doing the earlier repairs on my camera had propably lost the seal. At first i repaired it myself by adding foam seals around the window. A year later i sent the camera to CRR Luton for rangefinder restoration and they also replaced the seals with correct ones.
WJJ3
Well-known
Briefly read through this thread just now.
I think your light leak is being caused by an old light baffle that has deteriorated or came unglued. There are felt light baffles around the back side of the frame mask. My M3 had a light leak that was fogging my film somewhat similar to what you are getting, and it turned out it was one of the baffles that had come out of place due to deteriorated adhesive. Unfortunately the camera has to be completely opened up to get to them, which pretty much means overhaul. When I got mine fixed, the repairman told me I was lucky the baffle material didn't come fully detached and get lodged in the shutter.
The shop I took mine to was a very experienced repair center and the repairman was able to confirm that the baffle was causing the light leak without disassembling the camera...
I think your light leak is being caused by an old light baffle that has deteriorated or came unglued. There are felt light baffles around the back side of the frame mask. My M3 had a light leak that was fogging my film somewhat similar to what you are getting, and it turned out it was one of the baffles that had come out of place due to deteriorated adhesive. Unfortunately the camera has to be completely opened up to get to them, which pretty much means overhaul. When I got mine fixed, the repairman told me I was lucky the baffle material didn't come fully detached and get lodged in the shutter.
The shop I took mine to was a very experienced repair center and the repairman was able to confirm that the baffle was causing the light leak without disassembling the camera...