Linhof 220 repair

shallow_water said:
Yeah, I was. Some light overlapping but it would be nice if this is an easy fix
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Well I'm quite certain that the overlap is caused by the rubber roller slipping. Makes sense that it would be degraded after 60 years, but I can't explain why the issue is intermittent. Treating the rubber is as easy as it gets. Longer-term and harder solution would be to replace the roller with fresh rubber, or modify it to implement some sort of mechanical grip.
 
OlivierAOP said:
I have an update for my 220 and a potential fix for the frame overlap issue.

My repairman did a nice job lubing the internal mechanism but it did not solve the problem.

On the film insert there is a rubber roller that's driven by the film advance mechanism. It's supposed to push the film the correct amount onto the take-up spool. Like on a 35mm camera but without the perfs/sprockets. The roller was likely slipping due to lack of grip. Not a great design IMO, some mechanical teeth on the roller would have been better.

Before testing the camera again I treated the roller with "Rubber Renue", which gave the rubber a definite tack and a strong peppermint smell 🍬. It seems to have worked! But I don't think the "renue" effect is permanent.

I'll update if I can get a second good roll in a row... since I've had it the camera has produced two correct rolls before this one, out of ~8 total.
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I'm sorry I didn't see this thread earlier. I might have been able to help.
I bought a black 220 with a right hand technika side grip in as-is condition from Keh a few years ago. That variation I believe is super rare. One of the many things wrong with it was some kind of winding issue. I don't remember exactly, bit it may have been skipping gears, and also overlapped frames. It was also musty from bad storage, and needed cleaning and lubrication. I disassembled the winding mechanism, and cleaned and lubed it. I got stuck after I convinced myself that I had not reassembled the gears correctly. The gears are tricky, but they were in fact right. I spent weeks wondering how this was supposed to work, as the frames were not aligning as I sent a test roll through over and over again with the back open. The thing that confused me is that the mechanism wound the film too far, and there was no variation in the amount of rotation to account for the spool filling up with film as you progress through the roll.
At some point I figured it out. The way it is meant to work is that the gears and the cocking and frame dial mechanism in the body always perform the same action. There is a little gear on the left side that transfers the rotation to a gear on the internal film cartridge (not sure what Linhof calls it). This turns the take up spool, and pulls the film over the rubber roller. The rubber roller is in fact a film length counter. Once you have advanced one frame, and a set number of rotations of the roller, it activates a brake of sorts. Now when the gearing pulls further, the take up spool slips for the rest of the winding action. This accounts for the difference in tension you feel at the end of each wind. It will only work with the back closed, as it relies on the pressure of the back plate. This is a genius system, and much less complex than the wind and counter in a Super-Rollex film holder (which I have also restored). I believe Linhof were trying to simplify and reduce costs with this camera. The viewfinder is also much pared down compared to the one in the Technika 70 which has incredible parallax correction. As it relies on friction and slippage, this winding system is also kind of fragile.
My advice is to ensure the gearing in the body is clean and lubricated, and working smoothly (my frame counter was all sticky and didn't rotate). Then clean up the cassette as well as possible. The key is that the drive for the take up spool need so be able to slip, but don't lubricate it, as too much slippage will cause overlapping frames. It kind of needs to be just right. In my case it did take a few test rolls, but I now have a wonderful camera that is a lot of fun to use. Another issue I had is that I had it working well with Ilford and Foma film, but when I loaded a new Kodak film with the shiny backing paper it didn't like it. I had a few rolls jam up at the end of the roll. More recently they have worked fine.
I'm writing from memory, and I'll study the mechanism a bit more over the weekend, as I'm not sure of all the details. I hope this is helpful.
 
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@Particular

I think the mechanism is simpler that you interpret it. The take-up spool on the film holder is on a simple passive friction clutch. If you take a closer look on the spool holder you'll see a slotted round nut, held with a tiny pin. If you drive the pin out you can tighten/loosen the nut, which regulates the friction between the spool holder and the advance mechanism. This is what allows the take-up spool to "slow down" as the tension increases to allow for film build-up. Due to the clutch, the take-up spool cannot pull the film, therefore the rubber roller has to do all the pushing. Hence the rubber roller has to be driven by the mechanism and always turns the same amount. This is just like most 35mm cameras, but worse because there are no perforations nor sprockets to aid the traction. So if the rubber isn't grippy enough, it just slips under the film, the clutch on the spool actuates due to tension, film doesn't move and you have overlap.

It's true that the body always advances the internal gears the same amount per stroke, but the counter only engages with the insert in and the back closed. In addition, the resistance you feel at the end of stroke is the shutter cocking. First stroke advances film only, second cocks and advances.

Edit: On most other medium-format cameras (e.g. P67, GW690, Rolleiflex, Mamiya etc..) the indexing roller is passive. The film drives it via friction, which rotates the counter and eventually locks the advance via notches on the counter wheel. A third method avoids the indexing roller but relies on a counter/notch wheel that follows a spiral shape which accounts for the diameter change in the take-up spool (Hasselblad, Bronica S, P6, Koni-Omega, etc...). Spacing tends to be erratic on those because it is sensitive to the start arrow alignment and on film/paper thickness. The Linhof 220 is the only one I know that behaves like a 35mm system.
 
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OlivierAOP said:
@Particular

I think the mechanism is simpler that you interpret it. The take-up spool on the film holder is on a simple passive friction clutch. If you take a closer look on the spool holder you'll see a slotted round nut, held with a tiny pin. If you drive the pin out you can tighten/loosen the nut, which regulates the friction between the spool holder and the advance mechanism. This is what allows the take-up spool to "slow down" as the tension increases to allow for film build-up. Due to the clutch, the take-up spool cannot pull the film, and so the rubber roller has to do all the pushing. This is just like most 35mmm cameras, but worse because there are no perforations nor sprockets to aid the traction. So if the rubber isn't grippy enough, it just slips under the film, the clutch on the spool actuates due to tension, film doesn't move and you have overlap.

It's true that the body always advances the internal gears the same amount per stroke, but the counter only engages with the insert in and back closed.
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Yes, you are correct. I was trying to remember how it worked exactly. In my case cleaning the roller with alcohol revived it nicely. If your roller is still slippery, one idea could be putting a thin coat of fabric paint on it. I have been using a product called 'Jacquard Textile' from Blick (in the US) for all kinds of things that need to be more grippy. It is very rubbery, and tough, and water based, so it should be removable. Just an idea.
 
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A story:
When I got my beat up 220 there was no rangefinder image. I opened up the front plastic panel, and noticed the RF mirror was missing. I figured it was replaceable, so I found a mirror on ebay that I could cut to about the right size. At one of our NY meetups, Joe remarked; "Where would it have gone?" While waiting for the delivery I was out zone focussing, and while framing had the sun reflecting strongly off the floor of the finder window. It was the mirror, that was just floating around in there. I managed to shake it out and re-glue it. The RF only needed minor adjustment, and now is perfect.
 
@Particular Glad you were able to restore the 220. It's got funky ergonomics, a really nice finder and the Tessar lens is pretty good. I used "Rubber Renue" to treat the rubber. The problem is that it seems the restoration effect is temporary.

The RF is easy enough to adjust for infinity, but it's a PAIN to tune if it's off at close distances. No eccentric on the cam follower: you need tiny hex wrenches to undo it and it's a crap shoot to move it in small increments.
 
Having the side grip makes landscape shooting less awkward than the pistol grip I would presume. I would have liked parallax correction in the finder. It is not the most versatile camera, but it does what it is good at very nicely. Some of the images in my recent book were taken with it, so no complaints.
 
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