Looking for a 6X9 folder

J

jpa66

Jan as in "Jan and Dean"
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Hi all.

I love my Rolleiflex and use it all the time, but every once in awhile I get the urge to shoot a 6X9 negative. So, I'm looking for folder, since I don't really want to spend a lot of money.

My criteria is simple:
1) It must be easy to use. I've never really shot scale focusing, but if it's easy enough to do with the camera, then I'll try it out.

2) The lens should be good for both b&w and color, as I'll be using some slide film with it in addition to b&w.

3) Not expensive. This is relative, of course, but I'd rather keep it at or around 100 bucks. I could go higher, but I'd want to get rid of something first. It isn't necessarily a money issue, but I'd rather not spend several hundred dollars ( or more ) on something that I'm not sure if I like using or not ( and if that were the case, I'd probably just get another lens instead ).

Criteria 1) is the most important.

Any input is welcome.

Thanks,
Jan
 
Actually your first criteria should be -

has it recently been serviced so it works properly?


There are any number of decent folders out there that shoot 6x9 images but I am not real positive that any will match the image quality you are used to with your Rolleiflex. One of the best would probably be the Zeiss Ikonta C, and that one tends to be a bit pricey when they are found in decent condition. However there are other options as well. I have a very nice Balda Baldalux that produces very, very nice images when the lens is stopped down a bit, but they still do not compare with what my Fuji 6x9 rangefinder can produce.

However, go check www.certo6.com and you will get a mini education in folders. He also sells very nicely serviced examples and can help you find the right one. You can either bid on what he has on E-Bay or you can contact him directly. It is a good start.

Good luck and good shooting :D
 
Look for a good Moskva-4 or -5 -- should be able to get one for under $100. They are copies of the Zeiss Ikontas, with a similar rangefinder design. Good four element lens and shutter.
 
KoNickon said:
Look for a good Moskva-4 or -5 -- should be able to get one for under $100. They are copies of the Zeiss Ikontas, with a similar rangefinder design. Good four element lens and shutter.
Click to expand...

I agree.

If you can find a good Moskva (Moscow, Mockba) 5, in good nick, you will have a really decent camera.

The shutters are really excellent, considering their age, and they very seldom need service. Kinda like the AK47.
 
Watch out for a Zeiss Ikon Ercona I or II (made by east-german zeiss ikon Dresden). Many of them come with a Carl Zeiss Jena Tessar (razor sharp at f5.6/ f 8 !!!) f3.5/105mm lens and a tempor (east-german compur) shutter (with b-1/250th sec). You can get it for 25-50 € (30-60 $). Mine is a pure joy to shoot and sharp as hell :)
 
Flo Bresson said:
Watch out for a Zeiss Ikon Ercona I or II (made by east-german zeiss ikon Dresden). Many of them come with a Carl Zeiss Jena Tessar (razor sharp at f5.6/ f 8 !!!) f3.5/105mm lens and a tempor (east-german compur) shutter (with b-1/250th sec). You can get it for 25-50 € (30-60 $). Mine is a pure joy to shoot and sharp as hell :)
Click to expand...

I do agree. This camera with the Novar Anistigmat is a terrific performer. The Ercona 1 is a real sleeper. It is quite simple but that just means there are fewer things to go wrong.
 
So how do the Ikontas compare? I assume pretty good build-quality. The Moskva looks promising, but it's tough to find one in the US ( I's rather not get one from overseas ).

I'm assuming that ( based upon what I've already looked at ) the Voigtlanders are out of my price range.
 
Pioneer said:
Actually your first criteria should be -

has it recently been serviced so it works properly?


There are any number of decent folders out there that shoot 6x9 images but I am not real positive that any will match the image quality you are used to with your Rolleiflex. One of the best would probably be the Zeiss Ikonta C, and that one tends to be a bit pricey when they are found in decent condition. However there are other options as well. I have a very nice Balda Baldalux that produces very, very nice images when the lens is stopped down a bit, but they still do not compare with what my Fuji 6x9 rangefinder can produce.

However, go check www.certo6.com and you will get a mini education in folders. He also sells very nicely serviced examples and can help you find the right one. You can either bid on what he has on E-Bay or you can contact him directly. It is a good start.

Good luck and good shooting :D
Click to expand...


Thanks. I'm not expecting Rollei image quality, but would like something that at least could be stopped down for a relatively sharp image when needed.

And I've seen certo6's site in the past. It's definitely got a lot of information.
 
I got a Voigtlander Bessa II (Color-Skpar version) from certo6 back in 2006, and have been very happy with it.

Another camera to consider (more bulky, but with even better IQ) is the Kodak Medalist II. Ken Ruth (at Bald Mountain Photography) turned mine onto a camera that takes plain 120 film, which makes it so easy to use (especially when you are used to the Rolleiflex-type film advance).
 
Just about all the non-RF 120 folders fit into your criteria. Given a good bellows, shutter, and clean lens almost all will give decent photos. About the only coupled RF ones in your $100 price range are the Moskvas that have already been mentioned.

Avoid the 620 cameras, film is a real hassle for them. Either expensive, or do it yourself. Any 6x9 folder using 120 film in good shape is good. Once you have some experience you may decide a specific camera is more to your taste, but for the first one don't worry about it.
 
Jan,

As usual, this question hinges on what you want it for. I had never used scale focus prior to getting a folder. But used outside, in good light, it's dead easy, especially if you are taking largely landscape shots, for example, as opposed to objects within ten feet. In fact, Ikontas and Tessars have red dots on aperture scale and shutter. Set to the red dots and you are using hyperfocal settings w/out knowing it.
I second looking at the ZI Ikontas and Nettars -- they seem to have some of the more rigid structures, less worry about lack of paralellism, and the lower specced models are both less expensive and have less to go wrong.
In addition, the triplet lenses on the Zi's are quite good. Look at your shutter options and see whether a few speeds will do you, or you want the whole range.
Giorgio
 
I just want it for landscapes, basically. I'll probably use it the way I do my Rolleiflex most of the time, but without taking any portraits. As I age, I seem to want less and less technology in my cameras ( as well as other things ) and more simplicity.
 
jpa66 said:
I just want it for landscapes, basically. I'll probably use it the way I do my Rolleiflex most of the time, but without taking any portraits. As I age, I seem to want less and less technology in my cameras ( as well as other things ) and more simplicity.
Click to expand...

I think that puts you in the sweet spot for simple folders, Jan, as per my earlier post. You could try one of the simpler ones for little money and move up if you find it doesn't suit you.

Giorgio
 
This means avoid old Kodak folders...

This means avoid old Kodak folders...

graywolf said:
JAvoid the 620 cameras, film is a real hassle for them. Either expensive, or do it yourself. Any 6x9 folder using 120 film in good shape is good. Once you have some experience you may decide a specific camera is more to your taste, but for the first one don't worry about it.
Click to expand...

This essentially means stay away from old Kodak folders. Many were well built. Some had great lenses, but Kodak was particular about using their own proprietary film form. The spools were different from cameras that used conventional 120.

Kodaks used these odd spools and if you try to go with a Kodak (which explains their cheap cheap selling prices) you have to have a conversion done in the camera to 120, or respool 120 film onto 620 spools. The Kodak Medallist rangefinder camera is an example, as are all the Kodak Tourister. ???sp

Too bad, too... some good old Kodaks out there pretty useless.

Don't know what other cameras, if any, used the Kodak proprietary spools.
 
Incidentally I was offered a Moskva-2 for $40 today. It seems surprisingly light and compact (for 6x9), and has coupled rangefinder. Very much a carbon copy of the Super Ikonta.

However I'm not sure how good is the film flatness of these 6x9 folders, since the film area is quite large and the pressure plate relatively weak.

I have to agree with one of the earlier posters that I'm not entirely impressed with the quality of these folders (mostly 6x6), coming from a Rolleiflex 3.5F background.
 
The key to film flatness on a 6x9 folder is to wind the film just before you take the shot, after you open the camera. Opening the bellows sometimes creates a slight vacuum which pulls the film away from the pressure plate.
 
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