Ernst Dinkla
Well-known
Over the last week I did read all the threads on that lens type again. I cleaned the sample that I have here. Examined the lens groups. Checked its focal length etc.
http://www.pigment-print.com/Fotografica/CJZ Sonnar 60 f1.5 LTM/target1.html
The one I have here shows the following characteristics:
Serial number: 2112877
Focal length around 60 mm, certainly not 50mm.
Lens elements/groups definitely makes it a Sonnar type, not a Biotar.
Front opening 40mm diameter.
Filter thread approx. 48mm, 47,23 inside thread measurement.
Entire construction chromed brass but one aperture blades cage being aluminium.
10 blade aperture
Rear lens group is internally fastened with a locking ring.
Back locking ring for rear group has 6 slits for fastening.
Cam ring 3 holes for fastening.
Behind the aperture outer ring there is a hidden screw hole, in this case without the screw.
Green paint 12 writing inside on the front group.
There are several tiny bells in either the glass or the balsam of the rear lens group. Glass is my bet.
The lenses might have coating or I see color differences in the used glass qualities. There are several yellow <> purple reflections from the different lens surfaces looking from the lens' front to back and reverse. An uncoated Ernostar that I have here shows color differences too but less pronounced, several single coated lenses show red reflections too that are not visible in the Sonnar. Compact fluorescent lamp used.
Whether it is a fake or a genuine CZJ or just CJZ glass and third party brass I have one question for the experts:
Is there written history about 58 or 60 mm f/1.5 Sonnar type glass from any manufacturer? There is a Pentax SLR lens 58mm f/2.0 Sonnar type but I could not find German, East German, Russian glass Sonnar type with that focal length not to mention that aperture. There is that story about German WWII Army rangefinders of 60mm Sonnar type and I find that an unlikely story. The one example in Meopta fashion shows a larger front glass than the sample I have.
Fakes based on glass at hand happened all the time but fakes that included glass made for that purpose is something I put a lot of question marks to. If this was made of Russian glass one would expect a Jupiter lens of similar focal length; prototype at least, small production or whatever. Another question would be the date the first lens of this kind was reported, if this happened shortly after the war it is unlikely to be from Russia or the direct DDR postwar period and more likely of a war or pre war origin.
Ernst Dinkla
http://www.pigment-print.com/Fotografica/CJZ Sonnar 60 f1.5 LTM/target1.html
The one I have here shows the following characteristics:
Serial number: 2112877
Focal length around 60 mm, certainly not 50mm.
Lens elements/groups definitely makes it a Sonnar type, not a Biotar.
Front opening 40mm diameter.
Filter thread approx. 48mm, 47,23 inside thread measurement.
Entire construction chromed brass but one aperture blades cage being aluminium.
10 blade aperture
Rear lens group is internally fastened with a locking ring.
Back locking ring for rear group has 6 slits for fastening.
Cam ring 3 holes for fastening.
Behind the aperture outer ring there is a hidden screw hole, in this case without the screw.
Green paint 12 writing inside on the front group.
There are several tiny bells in either the glass or the balsam of the rear lens group. Glass is my bet.
The lenses might have coating or I see color differences in the used glass qualities. There are several yellow <> purple reflections from the different lens surfaces looking from the lens' front to back and reverse. An uncoated Ernostar that I have here shows color differences too but less pronounced, several single coated lenses show red reflections too that are not visible in the Sonnar. Compact fluorescent lamp used.
Whether it is a fake or a genuine CZJ or just CJZ glass and third party brass I have one question for the experts:
Is there written history about 58 or 60 mm f/1.5 Sonnar type glass from any manufacturer? There is a Pentax SLR lens 58mm f/2.0 Sonnar type but I could not find German, East German, Russian glass Sonnar type with that focal length not to mention that aperture. There is that story about German WWII Army rangefinders of 60mm Sonnar type and I find that an unlikely story. The one example in Meopta fashion shows a larger front glass than the sample I have.
Fakes based on glass at hand happened all the time but fakes that included glass made for that purpose is something I put a lot of question marks to. If this was made of Russian glass one would expect a Jupiter lens of similar focal length; prototype at least, small production or whatever. Another question would be the date the first lens of this kind was reported, if this happened shortly after the war it is unlikely to be from Russia or the direct DDR postwar period and more likely of a war or pre war origin.
Ernst Dinkla
Thankyou for this assessment- the 58/60 F1.5 is indeed a mystery. I have examined one of them, a 58mm F1.5. Sounds much like yours.
I have another mystery Sonnar: appears to be a 5cm f1.5 Sonnar with 6 elements in 3 groups. The original rear group is a doublet, not a triplet. SN 276 block. I am not sure how it came to be, is in Contax RF mount. It could be an attempt at making the lens simpler and cheaper. At $76 off of Ebay, an interesting piece.
I have another mystery Sonnar: appears to be a 5cm f1.5 Sonnar with 6 elements in 3 groups. The original rear group is a doublet, not a triplet. SN 276 block. I am not sure how it came to be, is in Contax RF mount. It could be an attempt at making the lens simpler and cheaper. At $76 off of Ebay, an interesting piece.
Ernst Dinkla
Well-known
We like to see a 6cm first on a Contax rangefinder and then adapted to a Leica but it could have been different.The unknown origin of the 58mm - 6cm f/1.5 Sonnar glass is most likely not related to the German rangefinder models of that period but related to the early SLR developments in pre war East Germany. The Exakta, the Syntax, the first Praktiflex. A normal 50mm Sonnar is not possible on SLR models but like the Pentax Sonnar type 58mm mentioned before, a slightly longer focal Sonnar could be used. The decision to abandon the Sonnar in favor of the Biotar/Gauss types for SLRs was only possible with the (also pre war) successful Zeiss developments in coating technologies.
Taunusreiter has a nice page on the early 35mm SLR models;
http://www.taunusreiter.de/Cameras/SLR_History.html
Even more interesting is this page, a hint of a Leica adapter in the text.;
http://www.novacon.com.br/odditycameras/Zeissslr.htm
Both show the Contax S with a Sonnar 57mm f2.0. So there was a lens of a similar focal length but not as fast as the f/1.5 we know.
http://m42.org.ua/620 shows the lens in more detail
Ernst Dinkla