M11, Yes, Another Review

It may just be me, but I have an M4, MDa and an M-A, and I don’t see why anyone thinks removing the unnecessary bottom plate is any kind of revolutionary design change. I always felt retaining on the M9 was unnecessary nostalgia.

Yes, I’d like one. No I haven’t the money for one at the moment. One thing, it would probably let me sell my slr lenses and have only one kit. All M…
 
In some ways owning a Leica is like joining a cult. And I think much of that is because the Leica satisfies fantasies and no one wants their fantasy modified. If Cartier-Bresson used a camera with a bottom plate that was removed to change film and then the process was carried forward to retrieve an SD card or battery. Leica owners do not seem to willingly embrace change, I do not think it is dangerous behavior but it sure is strange. Of course, YMMV.
 
ranger9 said:
Crikey, another “Random Internet Guy Discovers He Likes Expensive Things” review…
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Here are the photography chops of the writer Jackson Chen:

"Jackson Chen is a part-time News Writer for Input covering consumer tech. Prior to joining Input, he covered digital privacy, real estate, and local news as a freelancer. When’s he not working, he’s usually at the skatepark, climbing gym or playing board games."

The real question is how do these guys get an M11 to review? Is Leica sending them M11s and lenses? Are readers of Input magazine Leica's target customers?
 
ptpdprinter said:
Here are the photography chops of the writer Jackson Chen:

"Jackson Chen is a part-time News Writer for Input covering consumer tech. Prior to joining Input, he covered digital privacy, real estate, and local news as a freelancer. When’s he not working, he’s usually at the skatepark, climbing gym or playing board games."

The real question is how do these guys get an M11 to review? Is Leica sending them M11s and lenses? Are readers of Input magazine Leica's target customers?
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They certainly could send them one for review or maybe they liked it and bought it? I find it funny that if you buy a $9000 camera you need photography chops but for a $1000 camera it is not necessary. This site reviews expensive equipment and really does not tell us anything we do not already know when it comes to cameras.
 
Look to Leica. They decide who gets cameras to review. It is a good camera but it is being marketed as a fashion accessory more than a photo journalist's tool. I guess Leica figures there are more yuppies than photo journalists. They did the market research. The reviews are a mirror of the reality. Leica is a brand.
 
jsrockit said:
They certainly could send them one for review or maybe they liked it and bought it?
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Leica certainly could have sent an M11 to the reviewer. The reviewer did not buy the M11. He said it was out of his price range.
jsrockit said:
I find it funny that if you buy a $9000 camera you need photography chops but for a $1000 camera it is not necessary.
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I am not sure I know how you arrived at that conclusion. If I were interested in a $1000 camera, I would want to know something about the reviewer.
jsrockit said:
This site reviews expensive equipment and really does not tell us anything we do not already know when it comes to cameras.
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Does RFF do formal reviews? It is entirely possible that I missed them. I have seen members occasionally post reviews and post links to reviews on their own websites. Members do share their experiences with cameras, both new and old, every day. That is what the forum is all about. I have learned a lot about different cameras from members' posts.
 
My point is that what could someone on RFF need to know about the M11 that a review would tell you? It is not too different from an M10. My point about cash is that when people buy a Leica, they are expected to be great photographers by other photographers. It is not the case with a $1000 camera. You wrote about photography chops as if you expected a great photographer, but this is a luxury lifestyle brand.
 
jsrockit said:
My point is that what could someone on RFF need to know about the M11 that a review would tell you? It is not too different from an M10. My point about cash is that when people buy a Leica, they are expected to be great photographers by other photographers. It is not the case with a $1000 camera. You wrote about photography chops as if you expected a great photographer, but this is a luxury lifestyle brand.
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Perhaps other photographers expect Leica owners to be great photographers. I have no expectation of Leica owners being great photographers. The only expectation I have of Leica owners is that they have enough money to buy a Leica.
 
jsrockit said:
My point is that what could someone on RFF need to know about the M11 that a review would tell you? It is not too different from an M10. My point about cash is that when people buy a Leica, they are expected to be great photographers by other photographers. It is not the case with a $1000 camera. You wrote about photography chops as if you expected a great photographer, but this is a luxury lifestyle brand.
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I think the M11 is significantly different than a M10.
 
Leica has done a great job of convincing generally well-off people that they, too, can be a "great" photographer. Apart from the SL series, which working pros seem to love, the M digital Leicas do not strike me as something that I would ever choose even if people paid me to take photographs for a living. If you are not taking quality digital photographs pretty much everyday, $9,000 can buy alot of film and processing, and the depreciation on a digital M is astounding for a purported professional tool. The used M7 I bought 15 years ago has worked great and I do not see the "cost" of film and processing as ever supporting some kind of economic argument that digital Ms are somehow "cheaper" in the long run. For sure, some people use the hell out of digital Ms, and it may be a good "deal" to them. But the average non-pro M11 user? Time will tell.
 
This CAMERA will probably OUTLAST my LIFETIME.
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I remember vividly the M9 being marketed as a "lifetime companion". Come on...it's not. I also find, like many forum members who have owned Leicas on and off, that they're not "the last camera you'd ever need to buy". Life goes on after dreams come true.

The photos are not bad.
 
ptpdprinter said:
Perhaps other photographers expect Leica owners to be great photographers. I have no expectation of Leica owners being great photographers. The only expectation I have of Leica owners is that they have enough money to buy a Leica.
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Then why did you bring up his photography chops?
 
jsrockit said:
Then why did you bring up his photography chops?
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I thought it was fair to point out that the guy reviewing the Leica M11 does not have any photographic chops. Just like I think it was fair to point out when Steve Huff reviewed the M11 that he wasn't credible either for other reasons.
 
Input seems to be doing a decent job of presenting Leica's message to the world:
https://www.inputmag.com/search?q=leica

What the writers lack in experience, they make up for with wide-eyed enthusiasm, and a youthful sense of longing for stuff. I've almost forgotten what that was like, because I've been there, and done that. But I have fond memories of a time when "forever happy" seemed like a real possibility if I just made the right purchasing decisions. :p
 
ptpdprinter said:
I thought it was fair to point out that the guy reviewing the Leica M11 does not have any photographic chops. Just like I think it was fair to point out when Steve Huff reviewed the M11 that he wasn't credible either for other reasons.
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I understand now and agree, but that is the internet. It is full of self appointed experts.
 
boojum said:
Look to Leica. They decide who gets cameras to review. It is a good camera but it is being marketed as a fashion accessory more than a photo journalist's tool. I guess Leica figures there are more yuppies than photo journalists. They did the market research. The reviews are a mirror of the reality. Leica is a brand.
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Who cares who is buying next to 10K USD (after tax) camera which has no video and no sensor dust reduction.
It just laughable to call it as "good" camera, sorry for IMO.
But enough are buying every new LCAG camera and by this act are keeping bottom liners, not just the brand afloat.
I have zero interest in M11 reviews, just as in M10.
But I like to watch what people who are taking pictures are saying now about SL, T and so on :) .
 
davidde1000 said:
Leica has done a great job of convincing generally well-off people that they, too, can be a "great" photographer. Apart from the SL series, which working pros seem to love, the M digital Leicas do not strike me as something that I would ever choose even if people paid me to take photographs for a living. If you are not taking quality digital photographs pretty much everyday, $9,000 can buy alot of film and processing, and the depreciation on a digital M is astounding for a purported professional tool. The used M7 I bought 15 years ago has worked great and I do not see the "cost" of film and processing as ever supporting some kind of economic argument that digital Ms are somehow "cheaper" in the long run. For sure, some people use the hell out of digital Ms, and it may be a good "deal" to them. But the average non-pro M11 user? Time will tell.
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SL line has no support in NA, all is sent to Germany. Not sure if it is any different in EU/UK. I have seen video from person who is taking pictures every day for money. He is switching from SL to ... Canon, because he needs Pro support, not a boutique experience. So, his SL will go to someone like me. I'm is not pretending to be a pro. :)

I'm not an expert on pro tools depreciations, either. Tell me for how much dentist cabinet chair could be sold as used or ex Uber car.

Time and film? Time is money. Film is waste of time. If person is into the film.
But if person is exposing ten rolls per year and getting hosed by the labs, it is not any different from M11 casual user. Both are very useful. They are keeping Ms in low use, for some else after them :)
 
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