aton
Member
Hello! i'm new in this forum.
well...just a small anectote...i was two weeks ago in Morocco with a famous Magnum photographer and we spoke about the new M8..(he was a Leica user for years and with the ending of the Kodachrome in Europe he changes for a digital camera).
Leica lends him an M8 for testing...he told me that the quality is fantastic, but also that for the moment he don't wants to buy one (too expensive , and he dislikes the cropping factor, 1,33...) Don't forget that if you use a 35 mm for having more or less the field of a 50 , the lens remains a 35 mm for the depht of field and for the ratio between the subject and the background...
This photographer is a pro and as a Leicaist normally one of the most interested by this product..and he don't wants to buy the camera... 1,33 is the BIG problem...and a LOT of other pros are agree with this....
Well... I like very much Leica, and my MP is my very favourite tool for my work,
i wish chance to Leica with the M8...
well...just a small anectote...i was two weeks ago in Morocco with a famous Magnum photographer and we spoke about the new M8..(he was a Leica user for years and with the ending of the Kodachrome in Europe he changes for a digital camera).
Leica lends him an M8 for testing...he told me that the quality is fantastic, but also that for the moment he don't wants to buy one (too expensive , and he dislikes the cropping factor, 1,33...) Don't forget that if you use a 35 mm for having more or less the field of a 50 , the lens remains a 35 mm for the depht of field and for the ratio between the subject and the background...
This photographer is a pro and as a Leicaist normally one of the most interested by this product..and he don't wants to buy the camera... 1,33 is the BIG problem...and a LOT of other pros are agree with this....
Well... I like very much Leica, and my MP is my very favourite tool for my work,
i wish chance to Leica with the M8...
greggebhardt
Well-known
The 1.33x crop factor is not a deal breaker for me. I have been doing 1.5x with my Nikon DSLRs for years now and there will always be room enough in the bag for my M7 for the needed wide angle. I love wide but 28mm will cover it for me most the time so the 21mm on the M8 will be good, if not the 21mm fitted to the M7 will do the trick.
Fred
Feline Great
Welcome to the forum aton.
Intersting first post. For me I'll have to wait for an M8 simply because I cannot afford one for a long while yet. Having said that the crop factor for me only worries me that I'll need to get some more glass that I also cannot afford yet to cover the wider angles.
For now I'll keep using and more importantly enjoying my M7. I'd really like to try an M8 though, just that my bank balance may not afterwards.
Intersting first post. For me I'll have to wait for an M8 simply because I cannot afford one for a long while yet. Having said that the crop factor for me only worries me that I'll need to get some more glass that I also cannot afford yet to cover the wider angles.
For now I'll keep using and more importantly enjoying my M7. I'd really like to try an M8 though, just that my bank balance may not afterwards.
saxshooter
Well-known
Whether or not Leica toting Magnum photographers buy the M8 will not ensure the success/failure of this camera. Leica is not targeting the professional market, that is not where the money is. Some professionals will buy, some won't. But there are far more serious amateur and hobbyist users out there who love Leica and rangefinders, and it is THOSE people they are going after.
It is possible that Leica may use Magnum photographers for promotional purposes for their camera. Canon has done that with the agency VII.
The 1.33x factor has been debated here for a while. Some can live with it, some cannot. What remains to be seen is if Leica can afford to drop the price of this camera a few months after it comes out... that may move more units and add users to the pool of potential customers for their current and future lenses.
Charlie
It is possible that Leica may use Magnum photographers for promotional purposes for their camera. Canon has done that with the agency VII.
The 1.33x factor has been debated here for a while. Some can live with it, some cannot. What remains to be seen is if Leica can afford to drop the price of this camera a few months after it comes out... that may move more units and add users to the pool of potential customers for their current and future lenses.
Charlie
Tom Diaz
Well-known
aton said:
Welcome, Aton!
The crop factor is already pretty well known. It is not ideal, but it will not stop me from buying an M8. My favorite focal length is normally 35mm. I have a very nice 28mm, which will end up being about 37mm, so I am going to be fine.
From what we all have heard in advance, I think Leica has wisely tried to get the quality as high as possible rather than going to a full-frame sensor, at least for this first generation digital camera.
Flyfisher Tom
Well-known
Welcome Aton 
I too will probably wait a while until the M8 goes through its 'beta' testing. May I ask which Magnum photog your source is? Only divulge if you feel comfortable, of course
I too will probably wait a while until the M8 goes through its 'beta' testing. May I ask which Magnum photog your source is? Only divulge if you feel comfortable, of course
Gabriel M.A.
My Red Dot Glows For You
Well, frankly speaking, I find it odd that a Magnum photographer would be discussing this with just anybody. Any details?
saxshooter
Well-known
Hey, Magnum photogs are human too. Not untouchable gods! You can actually approach them and talk to them. I believe a few of them were given the camera to try out. I've the pleasure of calling a couple of Magnum photographers (past and present members of the agency) friends.
Charlie
Not untouchable gods! You can actually approach them and talk to them. I believe a few of them were given the camera to try out. I've the pleasure of calling a couple of Magnum photographers (past and present members of the agency) friends.Charlie
Gabriel M.A.
My Red Dot Glows For You
I'm not saying they're gods. Just think of the context of the secrecy of an M8 and the conditions under which preproduction cameras are lent. I'd think somebody from that agency would be slightly professional...
Mark Norton
Well-known
The sooner Leica reveal this thing to the world, the better. Rejecting the camera simply because it has a crop factor of 1.33 is hardly a valid reason.
Ben Z
Mentor
Fred said:
I felt compelled to check my calendar to make sure today isn't April 1st, but I definitely feel like one of my legs is a little longer
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Mackinaw
Think Different
Considering the amount of Nikon 1.5X DSLRs' that are being used by many pros, as well as some Canon DSLR models (which are at 1.6X), the 1.33X factor on the Leica probably isn't a big deal.
Jim Bielecki
Jim Bielecki
S
StuartR
Guest
Don't forget that every medium format digital back made has a crop factor, even the so-called 645 versions (which are usually 1.1x). Yes, crop factors are not ideal, but people would be screaming much louder if they released a larger, more expensive full-frame version that had poor corner sharpness and strong vignetting. At the moment, I believe there are only TWO cameras made that are full-frame -- the 5D and the 1DsMkII. The 14n used to be, but is no longer made.
jlw
Rangefinder camera pedant
I'm still baffled by this whole notion that somehow the magic dimensions of 24 x 36mm constitute "full-frame." Full relative to what?
For example, at work I've been using a digital camera with a 24 x 36 image capture area -- an old 6-megapixel Megavision back on a Fuji GX680 body. Somehow, when you're looking at the little finder mask floating in the middle of that 60mm x 80mm focusing screen, 24x36 doesn't seem all that "full"!
So what do I do? Well, I just forget about "crop factors" and sensor sizes and look through the viewfinder, line up the shot the way I want, and everything works out fine... pretty much the same as I do with my R-D 1 or my Nikon D100 or whatever. In fact, I've shot some pretty good pictures with an Olympus C-4040 compact, and I don't even know what size its sensor is!
My point in all this is that sensor size seems to matter most to people who either aren't using a digital camera, or are just starting to use one and are still struggling with their 35mm preconceptions. Once you stop worrying about what you'd be seeing through your old camera and start concentrating on what you ARE seeing, it's just not that big a deal. At least that's been my experience.
For example, at work I've been using a digital camera with a 24 x 36 image capture area -- an old 6-megapixel Megavision back on a Fuji GX680 body. Somehow, when you're looking at the little finder mask floating in the middle of that 60mm x 80mm focusing screen, 24x36 doesn't seem all that "full"!
So what do I do? Well, I just forget about "crop factors" and sensor sizes and look through the viewfinder, line up the shot the way I want, and everything works out fine... pretty much the same as I do with my R-D 1 or my Nikon D100 or whatever. In fact, I've shot some pretty good pictures with an Olympus C-4040 compact, and I don't even know what size its sensor is!
My point in all this is that sensor size seems to matter most to people who either aren't using a digital camera, or are just starting to use one and are still struggling with their 35mm preconceptions. Once you stop worrying about what you'd be seeing through your old camera and start concentrating on what you ARE seeing, it's just not that big a deal. At least that's been my experience.
Peter55
Leica M5 & Summilux User
Bright Lines for std. lenes and 1.33 crop
Bright Lines for std. lenes and 1.33 crop
I'm having difficulty understanding how the bright lines for the standard lenses is going to be exicuted by Leica. For example 35, 50, 90 & 135 lenses for my M5 all have bright lines which come up with the appropriate lens. So in the M8 how does this work. True I don't know for sure that there will even be brightlines for the lens that I named. But, with a 1.33 sensor crop will a 50mm lens have brightlines for 50 or 1.33 x 50? I don't know if I'm making myself clear. Can someone help me to understand this issue?
Bright Lines for std. lenes and 1.33 crop
I'm having difficulty understanding how the bright lines for the standard lenses is going to be exicuted by Leica. For example 35, 50, 90 & 135 lenses for my M5 all have bright lines which come up with the appropriate lens. So in the M8 how does this work. True I don't know for sure that there will even be brightlines for the lens that I named. But, with a 1.33 sensor crop will a 50mm lens have brightlines for 50 or 1.33 x 50? I don't know if I'm making myself clear. Can someone help me to understand this issue?
S
StuartR
Guest
Peter, it sounds like you have it. From what most people have written, it will have framelines that approximate the same field of view that are in the camera now. Since there is a 1.33 crop, that means that instead of being framelines for 28, 35, 50, 75, 90 and 135mm lenses, the framelines are going to be for 24,28,35,50,75 and 90mm lenses. A 24mm lens will bring up framelines that are for 24x1.33, so 32mm, the 28mm will bring up one that is about a 37mm frame etc etc. The 135mm lens will no longer bring up framelines because they would be so small in the viewfinder as to make it impractical. That said, no one is stopping you from putting the lens on and using it anyway...
Gabriel M.A.
My Red Dot Glows For You
jlw said:
You're kidding, right? You have no idea about 35mm lenses and their circle of coverage, in which the 24x36 area fits? The whole perspective thing? You are kidding, right?
JoeFriday
Agent Provacateur
here's what I don't get.. if you shoot images in portrait mode, doesn't the frame actually become 36x24??
Will
Well-known
Mackinaw said:
Jim,
Wouldn't it depends on the kind of photography the pros do?
jlw
Rangefinder camera pedant
gabrielma said:
Yes, having worked with film formats ranging from 16mm motion picture through 40x60 process camera, actually I believe I do have a pretty good idea about coverage circles and angles of view.
Based on that, the point I'm trying to get across is that a lens of a given focal length has always and will always produce different angles of view on imagers of different sizes. This is hardly a new idea, and in the past nobody ever got freaked out about it: there was no problem with the idea that a 40mm lens is a mild tele on a 16mm movie camera, a slight wide angle on a 35mm camera, a very wide lens on a 6x6cm camera and an ultra-wide on a 4x5 camera.
If you've got a 40mm lens for your 35mm camera, you don't think, "This is no good, it's a 2.33x crop factor compared to using a 40mm lens on my Hasselblad"... do you? No, you just look at it in terms of what angle of view it produces on the camera you're using, and compose your pictures accordingly.
"Crop factors" may be a bother to people who want to shoot digital and film at the same time to produce identical images at the same shooting distance and focal length... but seriously, who does that?
What I can tell you based on personal experience is that when I first started working with a digital camera having an "APS-size" sensor, I worried a lot about the 1.53x crop factor, constantly thinking, "Well, if I were shooting this shot on 35mm, I'd stand here and use this lens, but now I've got to stand there and use that lens..." That lasted about a month, until I got acclimated to how the camera would "see" with various lenses, and then I just didn't think about it any more. It's no harder than switching back and forth between a medium-format camera and a 35mm camera, for example.