Nikon M + Nikkor SC 5cm f1.4 (5005xxx)

UV76

UV76

Established
Local time
12:09 PM
Joined
Sep 30, 2019
Messages
120
Nikon M + Nikkor SC 5cm f1.4 (5005xxx), the world's first f1.4 glass. I wonder if the glass was produced by Schott in Germany and transported to Japan during WWII..

med_U77462.1635760497.0.jpg


U77462.1635760444.0.JPG


U77462.1635760385.0.JPG
 
UV76, I have the same lens in LTM format. It's a great shooter and I think the earlier lenses marked Tokyo are slightly sharper than the later lenses labeled Japan, at least that is the case with the two I have.

Tokyo5cm.jpg

Best,
-Tim
 
Timmyjoe said:
UV76, I have the same lens in LTM format. It's a great shooter and I think the earlier lenses marked Tokyo are slightly sharper than the later lenses labeled Japan, at least that is the case with the two I have.



Best,
-Tim
Click to expand...

Tim, thanks for sharing your LTM version. Yes, I agree the earlier 5005 (marked Tokyo) seem to be slightly sharper than later versions marked Japan
 
I've had a late black ring version in LTM for many years and I've never found it wanting for sharpness (at least stopped down). And I wouldn't give up the wonderful wide open glow @1.4 for anything. But an early 5005XXX version certainly intrigues me. I understand the "Tokyo" vs "Japan" engraving doesn't exactly follow the serial number change. Some of the early 300XXX series say Tokyo I believe. UV76: what makes you think the glass was made by Schott in Germany? Wasn't Nikon one of the first to master its own glass manufacturing technology in Japan?
 
bluesun267 said:
I've had a late black ring version in LTM for many years and I've never found it wanting for sharpness (at least stopped down). And I wouldn't give up the wonderful wide open glow @1.4 for anything. But an early 5005XXX version certainly intrigues me. I understand the "Tokyo" vs "Japan" engraving doesn't exactly follow the serial number change. Some of the early 300XXX series say Tokyo I believe. UV76: what makes you think the glass was made by Schott in Germany? Wasn't Nikon one of the first to master its own glass manufacturing technology in Japan?
Click to expand...

Yes Nikon certainly had the technology but the availability of raw material (high grade optical glass) seemed to be somewhat limited at the prevailing time.
There is an article in the local Japanese industry journal where the author interviewed a former Nippon Kogaku engineer who knows the background during the time 5005 lens was designed. This engineer commented on the use of remaining inventory of imported optical glass from Germany (Schott) during WWII for 5005 (started production in May 1950).

Therefore the working hypothesis is when inventory of glass imported from Germany ran out, the serial number switched to Nippon Kogaku Tokyo (serial starting from 316 or 321) or Nippon Kogaku Japan (starting 321/322) serial number range... Too bad there is not enough archived evidence out there. If you have more info, I would love to know more.


Yes I agree I don't want to stop down too much, love the wide open flare but 5005 does not seem to flare as much as later 5cm f1.4

med_U77462.1635954274.0.JPG
 
Really interesting. The initial conclusion one could come to is that Nikon couldn't quite master the qualities of the German glass when they were able to manufacture it themselves. But then again, they may have had good reasons for not doing so over the course of this lens' run. Though I haven't used the 5005 version I would surmise there are other qualities to the later versions that they deemed an improvement in terms of what photographers were looking for at the time (perhaps more stable contrast at all f-stops, less focus shift, or better color rendition).
 
I never cared for the veiling flare of 5cm Nikkor f1.4 lens when it is used fully open...for Sonnar derivatives I prefer the Canon 50mm f1.5 and the Jupiter 3 lenses.
 
bluesun267 said:
Really interesting. The initial conclusion one could come to is that Nikon couldn't quite master the qualities of the German glass when they were able to manufacture it themselves. But then again, they may have had good reasons for not doing so over the course of this lens' run. Though I haven't used the 5005 version I would surmise there are other qualities to the later versions that they deemed an improvement in terms of what photographers were looking for at the time (perhaps more stable contrast at all f-stops, less focus shift, or better color rendition).
Click to expand...

My wild guess is that while Nikon had the production facility and the technology to manufacture high grade lens (i.e. Nikon lenses in the 1940s or 50s rarely had "bubbles" caused during glass melting and blending of other ingredients that Schott struggled to overcome at the time) did not have a stable supply of glass material from suppliers or lacked access to imported glass material immediately after WWII (there was a high demand for silica sand used to make glass for windows amid post-war construction boom but domestic supply was limited) therefore had to use the inventory of glass material imported from Germany (high grade material procured initially for the purpose of manufacturing military spec optical instruments) for the initial batch of f1.4, and as domestic silica sand/glass production and import stabilized, switched to more commercially viable and mass-production friendly build and commensurate specification that photographers were looking at the prevailing time as you mention.
 
I have a 5005 series S-Mount lens, 320xxx LTM lens, and several later ones. The optics in the 320xxx and 5005 series lenses is the same. The lenses that follow have larger diameter fixtures and optics. I also have a 5cm F1.5 in LTM, which was computed in 1937. David Douglas Duncan preferred the 5cm F1.5 lens. The 5cm F1.5 lens "was likely" the Schott glass, statements made that a small amount of glass remained to produce it. Total production of the 5cm F1.5 lens is in the hundreds. Production of the 5005 series lens was ~2000.
 
Sonnar Brian said:
I have a 5005 series S-Mount lens, 320xxx LTM lens, and several later ones. The optics in the 320xxx and 5005 series lenses is the same. The lenses that follow have larger diameter fixtures and optics. I also have a 5cm F1.5 in LTM, which was computed in 1937. David Douglas Duncan preferred the 5cm F1.5 lens. The 5cm F1.5 lens "was likely" the Schott glass, statements made that a small amount of glass remained to produce it. Total production of the 5cm F1.5 lens is in the hundreds. Production of the 5005 series lens was ~2000.
Click to expand...

I also have f1.5 in Nikon S mount, it's a great lens and posted some images below.Production volume is 797 (389 bayonet (Nikon S) mount and 408 in LTM) according to Robert Rotoloni's book.

https://www.rangefinderforum.com/fo...nders-other-classics/nikon-rf/4754394-nikon-m
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top