Noctilux used values

Shadowplay

Shadowplay

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I apologize in advance if this is in the wrong area.

Anyhow, I've always played with the idea of buying a noctilux, though never seriously. It's been a while since I saw one listed here, but the ones I do recall seeing seemed to be going in the $4500 range. Is this still a reasonable price to expect to pay? Normally I'd just watch the market and figure it all out for myself, but I've been offered one as a trade for my 1DsIII and haven't been able to do the proper research! He didn't list any price for the noct, I'm just trying to figure out a fair offer for him or if the value is too high - just avoiding the trade entirely.

Lastly, why is it that in the RFF classifieds the old ads/sold ads are removed entirely rather than just listed as sold? It would be a nice reference for us all!
 
December last year I paid 4100 $ for mine (from a member here at RFF) and with shipping it was finally 4300 $. It is the older E60 version with detachable hood (6-bit coded by Leica Solms) and came with both caps but without box or papers.

Prices had gone up to 5500 $ or even more (depending on condition) but recently went down a little short before Photokina, when rumors about the new Noctilux started. I have seen remarkable more used Noctilux lenses for sale since then.

Cheers,

Gabor
 
I've been trying to get one for sub 4000 for a couple of years.
no such luck.
i passed on two for ~4200 however.
one had a spot inside.
wan't into that.
I'm after the e60 with detachable hood, want to sell me yours?

thanks!
 
I've been seriously considering just buying the new one when it comes out. It would take the guesswork out of it :)
 
I think some people may be selling the f1 to fund the 0.95 ASPH. Interestingly, once a small number of pictures from the new Noctilux appeared over on the LUF members' sentiment was to keep their f1 lenses. Although the new lens is described by Leica as having the same wide-open characteristics as the old none of the pictures showed that. At least not yet.

I think that $4000-4500 is a decent price in the current market. If the wide-open look of the pre-ASPH is not replicated in the new lens you might see that price go up. I think most people who hang on to their f1 lenses do so for the signature wide-open - they love it. Its not the speed of the lens per se. If the f0.95 signature wide-open is always going to be like the few examples on the LUF, then I don't see the point of the lens other than speed and the consequent bragging rights. A 50/1.4 ASPH and faster film will do the same thing.
 
peter_n said:
I think most people who hang on to their f1 lenses do so for the signature wide-open - they love it. Its not the speed of the lens per se. If the f0.95 signature wide-open is always going to be like the few examples on the LUF, then I don't see the point of the lens other than speed and the consequent bragging rights. A 50/1.4 ASPH and faster film will do the same thing.
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My opinion, too. I really like the unique signature of the pre-ASPH Noctilux (and also 35mm Summilux pre-ASPH). If the only difference between the new ASPH Noctilux and ASPH Summilux is the one f-stop and the unique signature of the old Noctilux has been eliminated by improved design, I don't see any reason to carry the additional weight, when pushing film one stop can do the same.

About the shallow DoF... The 75mm Summilux and 90mm Summicron can do the same and even shallower.
 
I think that the recent discontinuance of the f/1 Noctilux has triggered a price Noctibubble. It has not been that long since a version II Noctilux could be had in Mint minus condition for $2000.00. We have learned a lot about bubbles lately, and we should be guided by that experience. Sit tight and wait for the bubble to burst. Then you can pick one up for $2000 again. In teh meantime, put your money into something that is currently undervalued, not overvalued: Say, General Electric.
 
I don't think the bubble will burst until there's no longer a digital rangefinder. Without the M8, I think it might have gone more quietly when discontinued.

Even then, I wonder if the numbers are low enough for it to become a collectible, not to the same extent as the original noctilux 50mm f1.2, but still collectible enough. If nothing else, there's enough emotion of both sides of the noctilux-spectrum to keep it in peoples minds and some people's interest.

Edit: Anyone want to bet whether it will ever drop below $3000 in the next 5 years?
 
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I saw one not too long ago by a local seller here (Southern California) for around $2000 on Craig's List. It looked to be an exceptional deal, but it was still way more $$ than I normally have to spend on lenses. It seems 4-5K is more the norm for a good one, except for the for the older F1.2 version which is insanely expensive (these appear on eBay from time-to-time as rich collectors realign their holdings!).
 
Partly i expect the price also to be dependant on the US$ strength or weakness versus mainly the euro. As the US$ has become stronger over the last couple of days, US$ 4000 means more Euros to a European seller, like me.
 
peter_n said:
I think some people may be selling the f1 to fund the 0.95 ASPH. Interestingly, once a small number of pictures from the new Noctilux appeared over on the LUF members' sentiment was to keep their f1 lenses. Although the new lens is described by Leica as having the same wide-open characteristics as the old none of the pictures showed that. At least not yet.

I think that $4000-4500 is a decent price in the current market. If the wide-open look of the pre-ASPH is not replicated in the new lens you might see that price go up. I think most people who hang on to their f1 lenses do so for the signature wide-open - they love it. Its not the speed of the lens per se. If the f0.95 signature wide-open is always going to be like the few examples on the LUF, then I don't see the point of the lens other than speed and the consequent bragging rights. A 50/1.4 ASPH and faster film will do the same thing.
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Dear Peter,

I'm not sure how much you can judge from current Noctilux pics, as even Leica has very few Noctilux f/0.95 lenses in production form. At photokina I was allowed to take a picture with the new lens on condition I didn't publish it because Leica were not yet fully happy with that particular example. To me, it looked very similar to the old Noctilux wide open (the only aperture I tried).

As for speed and 'bragging rights', I was shooting a concert a few days ago with an f/1.5 and wished I still had the Noctilux (I borrowed it from a friend for two years -- a very kind friend!) because even at ISO 2,500 I'd have preferred shorter shutter speeds. Also, I really like the look of the Noctilux used wide open in poor light.

Some will no doubt buy it for 'bragging rights' but who cares? As long as those of us who want to use the speed can also buy one (if we can afford it -- alas I cannot) then complaints about 'bragging rights' are pointless carping.

Cheers,

Roger
 
Edit: Anyone want to bet whether it will ever drop below $3000 in the next 5 years?
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I'll place a small wager, and it won't take 5 years. I'll bet at this time next year they'll be well below $3k.
 
zwicko said:
Well, my guess is Noctilux prices lenses will remain stable (or even go up).
There´s no way to purchase a new one of the now outdated f1 version and the new aspherical f0.95 Noctilux will be around 8000 USD (and I guess there won´t be too many used ones around for quite a long time).
Users of the old one probably won´t sell theirs, so there won´t be too many around either.
That small number of the f1 Nocti on the used market will drive prices up - at least in my opinion.

But we´ll see... ;)

Cheers, Z.
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That's my guess too, but we could be proved wrong by a depression.

On the other hand, most those who were well off in the late 1920s/early 1930s remained quite well off. I suspect that the hardest hit will be the poor (who couldn't afford Leicas, let alone Noctiluxes, at any time); those in the middle classes who are unlucky enough to lose their jobs (fewer job losses than among the poor, I bet); and the wannabee rich who ran up massive debt to fund a flashy lifestyle -- the ones that are known to some Americans as the 'upper middle class', to some English as 'nouveaux riches' and to many as 'f*ckwits'. Somehow I doubt that many of them bought Noctiluxes either, but what do I know?

Then again, though I don't think it likely they'll come down, and although I can't afford $4000-5000 for a used f/1, if they do come down to $3000 again I shall very seriously consider one.

Cheers,

R.
 
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That small number of the f1 Nocti on the used market will drive prices up - at least in my opinion.
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I think you'd be right under normal economic circumstances, but I fear things are going to get much worse before they get better. The Noctilux is an indulgence for most owners, and those are the things that are sold first in bad economic times.

My prediction is that they'll be held onto for awhile, with prices a little below peak (that seems to be happening already.) Then, as the effects of the economic downturn become more widespread, people will start to sell off unneeded items more frantically, and that will drive down prices quite a lot more.

The same thing is currently happening in the real-estate market, with some analysts advising that now is the time to pick up 'bargains,' but today's prices are still inflated and the real bargains are yet to come.
 
kevin m said:
The same thing is currently happening in the real-estate market, with some analysts advising that now is the time to pick up 'bargains,' but today's prices are still inflated and the real bargains are yet to come.
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Dear Kevin,

I'd certainly agree about that, but of course, a great deal depends on exactly who did buy Noctiluces and what they can get for them. IF they were bought as pure indulgences, you have to be right; but a counter-argument is that they're (relatively) cheap entertainment if you use them and can possibly afford to hold on to them. Is (let's say) $3000 going to be a make-or-break deal for someone who could afford to buy a Noctilux in the first place, i.e. didn't go into debt to do it? How numerous were they? Who knows?

I'm not calling you wrong, and I'm firmly in two minds about it: I'd love one at a price I can afford, but equally, my chum who is selling one could do with the money...

Cheers,

R.
 
Rob-F said:
It has not been that long since a version II Noctilux could be had in Mint minus condition for $2000.00.
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True. I bought mine a couple of years ago for $2200 and it had hardly been used. I thought the price was outrageous at the time but water under the bridge certainly changes that view. The price may go up and down but in the long-term it should trend up, if for no other reasons than inflation and that its a discontinued lens.
 
IF they were bought as pure indulgences, you have to be right; but a counter-argument is that they're (relatively) cheap entertainment if you use them and can possibly afford to hold on to them.
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That's true, Roger, and I'm sure there are many owners for whom the cost of a Noctilux, even at an inflated value, is regarded no more seriously than I regard having an extra Russian lens lying about. There are some owners, however, who seem to fret about the dollar value of their camera 'investments,' and those would be the people most inclined to sell in a panic, I think. :)
 
My case is similar to Gabor's, last December I paid US$4,200 for a mint- version 3 Nocti with original caps, hood, box and papers. A couple of months ago I invested another US$690 (EU 508) in this lens by having it CLAd by Leica Solms. I did so because the focus movement was a little rough for my taste and also it had a couple of dust speckles inside. Now is mint.

The funny thing is that last February, a friend of mine that does not care a lot about money, accepted a two year old offer of US$3,000 I made him for his absolutely mint version 2 Nocti (he never used it).

Now I'm the happy and puzzled owner of two Noctis. Some time ago, before Photokina, I posted in another forum asking for opinions about the right moment to sell the extra lens (I'm not rich enough to keep the two). I still don't know the answer... any advice?

Regards,

Marcelo
 
kevin m said:
There are some owners, however, who seem to fret about the dollar value of their camera 'investments,' and those would be the people most inclined to sell in a panic, I think. :)
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Dear Kevin,

We are of one mind on this. We probably agree, too, that cameras as an investment (in the sense of gold, say) are not a very bright idea. Taking that premise for granted, those who bought Noctiluces as 'investments', or as anything other than tools for taking pictures, will probably sell in a panic. And I'll be quite happy to buy from 'em!

Cheers,

Roger
 
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