Bill Pierce
Well-known
I’ve mentioned before that two photographers that went out of their way to help me when I started were Gene Smith and David Vestal. As different as they were, they shared a common thought - your photography was both taking a picture and printing a picture. What and when you took a picture was the first step. In the next step, the print, you emphasized what was important to you and the color, contrast and brightness provided an atmosphere, a spirit that you decided upon.. Gene felt this so strongly that he was one of the few photographers to print his own pictures for stories he did for Life Magazine. David applied those principles not only in film photography but in the digital world. And it really doesn’t matter whether you’re looking at a print on paper or a screen, The picture should be yours, not the one that the camera and computer decide on.
Digital photography has made it far easier to take that camera image and make it a personal image. One of the biggest changes recent digital cameras with relatively high megapixel sensors have given us is the ability to crop, certainly something that had to be approached with caution by those of us who grew up on 35mm film. And when making black-and-white images from digital color files we can now choose to get the same effects we got with black-and-white films and colored filters - but now we get to choose which colored filter is most effective after we have taken the picture - and we don’t have to carry a bunch of filters with us and deal with the fact that all our lenses seem to take different size filters.
Emphasizing what is important, perhaps brightening it or increasing it’s contrast a bit and deemphasizing what is not important by slightly darkening or lowering contrast meant a blend of variable contrast filters, ferrocyanide bleach and prayer in the chemical darkroom. It’s easy in the digital darkroom as is the control of those major mood setters, contrast and brightness. And, while it was difficult to exactly repeat the controls like burning and dodging in the wet darkroom when making more than one print of an image, making a run of identical prints is no problem in the digital darkroom. Although, I have to say, I like making prints of the same image that are a little different and seeing which I like best. I have seen Ansel Adams prints of the same image made at different times. The early prints held detail from shadow to highlight - a triumph of the zone system. The later prints were a contrastier, more dramatic at the price of losing some of the extreme shadow and highlight detail. All in all, printing should be personal. That’s really not very difficult these days.
What experiences do you have along these lines? Is “printing” important or is hitting the shutter button at the “decisive moment” enough?
Digital photography has made it far easier to take that camera image and make it a personal image. One of the biggest changes recent digital cameras with relatively high megapixel sensors have given us is the ability to crop, certainly something that had to be approached with caution by those of us who grew up on 35mm film. And when making black-and-white images from digital color files we can now choose to get the same effects we got with black-and-white films and colored filters - but now we get to choose which colored filter is most effective after we have taken the picture - and we don’t have to carry a bunch of filters with us and deal with the fact that all our lenses seem to take different size filters.
Emphasizing what is important, perhaps brightening it or increasing it’s contrast a bit and deemphasizing what is not important by slightly darkening or lowering contrast meant a blend of variable contrast filters, ferrocyanide bleach and prayer in the chemical darkroom. It’s easy in the digital darkroom as is the control of those major mood setters, contrast and brightness. And, while it was difficult to exactly repeat the controls like burning and dodging in the wet darkroom when making more than one print of an image, making a run of identical prints is no problem in the digital darkroom. Although, I have to say, I like making prints of the same image that are a little different and seeing which I like best. I have seen Ansel Adams prints of the same image made at different times. The early prints held detail from shadow to highlight - a triumph of the zone system. The later prints were a contrastier, more dramatic at the price of losing some of the extreme shadow and highlight detail. All in all, printing should be personal. That’s really not very difficult these days.
What experiences do you have along these lines? Is “printing” important or is hitting the shutter button at the “decisive moment” enough?
robert blu
quiet photographer
Printing (now digital) is important and helps to become a better photographer, where for better I mean better to express my self through photography.
Style of processing and printing can be different depending on the photo, on the project.
Sometimes better with high contrast, sometimes better with masny grey tones, it depends.
Style of processing and printing can be different depending on the photo, on the project.
Sometimes better with high contrast, sometimes better with masny grey tones, it depends.
Bill Clark
Mentor
When I had my business, I never made any prints. Spent my time where I thought I could get the max amount of benefit.
Now I’m retired, I still make very few prints.
Now I’m retired, I still make very few prints.
Ronald M
Mentor
The best thing about digital is chimping. I know the neg is in the bag. Next best is photoshop to fine tune the photo to perfection.
The worst thing having to turn over the file to a commercial business who can afford a laser printer. I have tried 4 inkjet and they are expensive , ink dries, etc.
Film is still good. Have my M6 from early 1980s and six Nikon F2 with finders and lenses and the darkroom to match.
The worst thing having to turn over the file to a commercial business who can afford a laser printer. I have tried 4 inkjet and they are expensive , ink dries, etc.
Film is still good. Have my M6 from early 1980s and six Nikon F2 with finders and lenses and the darkroom to match.
John Bragg
Well-known
Printing is very important to me. I was an avid wet printer and of nescessity moved over to scanning and inkjet printing. I once had to make over 50 identical prints of various sizes from one 645 negative of a local choir. By the end I became quite good at it. Lighting was complicated as it was in a local church and there was much burning and dodging. Same job with inkjet would be a doddle.
mrtoml
Mancunian
When I press the shutter button I am already thinking about the print. I don’t see the point of photography without a physical print as the outcome.
Deardorff38
Mentor
Agreed. If i didn't have a darkroom, i'd stop taking photographs. Taking a photograph and printing it are part of the same act. Otherwise it's like a guitar or violin without any strings.
Dogman
Mentor
I think Bill covered it for me. Printing and having a print are the reasons to shoot photos.
When I first became interested in photography it was because of B&W prints I saw at a friend's apartment. Simple drugstore prints but, wow, they looked grand to me. B&W has been my main love affair in photography for all these years. I was not a particularly good darkroom printer but I've become pretty fair at making digital B&W prints. I've done a few in-camera scans of some of my old negatives and the prints look so much better than when I did them in the darkroom. Usually I fiddle with the files over and over again. I may return to them years later and redo a photo for a new print. It's an ongoing process. It's understandable why Adams constantly fiddled with his photos--we all change our approaches and preferences over time so why not change our art as well.
When I first became interested in photography it was because of B&W prints I saw at a friend's apartment. Simple drugstore prints but, wow, they looked grand to me. B&W has been my main love affair in photography for all these years. I was not a particularly good darkroom printer but I've become pretty fair at making digital B&W prints. I've done a few in-camera scans of some of my old negatives and the prints look so much better than when I did them in the darkroom. Usually I fiddle with the files over and over again. I may return to them years later and redo a photo for a new print. It's an ongoing process. It's understandable why Adams constantly fiddled with his photos--we all change our approaches and preferences over time so why not change our art as well.
airfrogusmc
Mentor
For me a photograph isn't finished until it is a print.
nikon_sam
Shooter of Film...
YES...!!!
When I started photography in high school that was part of the process and my grade in class...
I would roll my film, shoot it, develop it, then print...a process I continue today.
A few years after high school I had all the equipment to set-up a darkroom...I still have it and more...I love being in the darkroom, I love Printing...
charjohncarter
Mentor
I still print almost every week, even with Wuhan. But I feel I'm different from most of you. I don't have a darkroom anymore, and I don't have a digital printer. I send my printing to Costco, but now it is online only. But I still think they do wet printing. I don't really care for their color paper prints when I send B&W; you know the problems. If I want a good B&W print I send to Fomex in LA or Mpix for real true B&W paper wet prints.
Of course, Costco has some restrictions, but only to your project of nude middle to later age house wives.
Of course, Costco has some restrictions, but only to your project of nude middle to later age house wives.
Ko.Fe.
Lenses 35/21 Gears 46/20
Where is no digital darkroom. It is called post processing. No developing either. Everyone who calls digital post processing as developing is inflatable doll looser.
Deardorff38
Mentor
Thank You Ko.Fe! That is the best post of 2021!
Damn, a great high school punk band name...
as far as printing ... I prefer book making. With digital, I only make single prints to sell, to give away or for a gallery. I just don't need the clutter in my house when I have other viewing methods and inkjet printing is pretty easy. Books are great for cheap bulk printing and for more serious endeavors.
View Range
Well-known
Why don't you call Alan Ross in Santa Fe, NM, and ask him the questions? (alanrossphotography.com) Alan has printed Ansel's negatives for over 45 years and prints the Yosemite Special Edition prints to this day from Ansel's original negatives. Alan uses masks to get exactly the same darkroom print each time. Alan is a master printer in the darkroom and with the computer. His approach to developing/processing is exactly same whether in the darkroom or on the computer. To him there is no difference, just different tools. If you think Alan is printing with too much contrast, tell him.
Bob Michaels
nobody special
I have always insisted on being responsible for everything through the finished product. Even developing E-6. Never shot color negative film. So if the final was a hard copy print, I made it.
But I do take advantage of modern day presentation alternatives. Sometimes it is a series of sequenced prints on the wall with captions. Sometimes it is a digital slide show with narration. Since the goal of my photography is to convey information, a single print without caption very seldom works for me.
Until some 12 years ago, I made a proof print of any photo that I thought had merit. That taught me to be a brutal self-editor. But I found that I was using digital files more and more and proof prints less and less so stopped. Now I print only when I know my final presentation will be actual prints. So no more 8x10 proofs unless they are giveaways to the subject.
But I do take advantage of modern day presentation alternatives. Sometimes it is a series of sequenced prints on the wall with captions. Sometimes it is a digital slide show with narration. Since the goal of my photography is to convey information, a single print without caption very seldom works for me.
Until some 12 years ago, I made a proof print of any photo that I thought had merit. That taught me to be a brutal self-editor. But I found that I was using digital files more and more and proof prints less and less so stopped. Now I print only when I know my final presentation will be actual prints. So no more 8x10 proofs unless they are giveaways to the subject.
JeffS7444
Well-known
For sanity's sake, I need to be selective about what I commit to paper, but I can and do spend a lot of time tweaking images in Lightroom, usually within hours of shooting them. I want that feedback as to how the image I had in my mind compares to what I can realize in post-processing, and based on this feedback, I may adjust my shooting technique.
OTOH, I don't attempt do do much manipulation of photos taken with my iPhone 11 with it's Deep Fusion + Auto-HDR capability: If I want to take advantage of that computational imaging power, I'm limited to HEIF and JPEG output, and those files lack the "plasticity" I get from a good raw file. At the moment, iPhone 11's as-shot images look a bit overcooked to me, but not unpleasantly so.
OTOH, I don't attempt do do much manipulation of photos taken with my iPhone 11 with it's Deep Fusion + Auto-HDR capability: If I want to take advantage of that computational imaging power, I'm limited to HEIF and JPEG output, and those files lack the "plasticity" I get from a good raw file. At the moment, iPhone 11's as-shot images look a bit overcooked to me, but not unpleasantly so.
Bill Pierce
Well-known
The prints I'm referring to were printed by Adams.
sjones
Established
Ansel Adams proved that for some types of photography, notably black & white, the darkroom/post processing can be one of photography’s most creative steps. On the other hand, Henri Cartier-Bresson proved that you can still crank out the goods without entering the darkroom if you collaborate with a skilled printer who understands or meets your aesthetic goals.
I switched to shooting B&W exclusively in part because I enjoyed the post processing element, manipulating the contrast, tonal qualities, and such. Besides, I don’t trust my color skills, particularly since I’m slightly green-red color blind.
In any event, for about a decade, I scanned and created inkjet prints, some through my own Epson 2400 and some through Adorama. The prints looked good, but I couldn’t psychologically get past the ink image ‘sitting’ atop the paper. This issue pertained to only my prints, not others (of which I would possibly be hard-pressed to differentiate between inkjet or silver gelatin).
So a couple years ago, started making traditional darkroom prints, and while the learning and process can sometimes be infuriating, the results, as they say, justify the effort. I still scan negatives for posting to the web and using as a blueprint for the wet prints. But the print itself remains the ultimate reason and the best expression of photography, at least for me.
I switched to shooting B&W exclusively in part because I enjoyed the post processing element, manipulating the contrast, tonal qualities, and such. Besides, I don’t trust my color skills, particularly since I’m slightly green-red color blind.
In any event, for about a decade, I scanned and created inkjet prints, some through my own Epson 2400 and some through Adorama. The prints looked good, but I couldn’t psychologically get past the ink image ‘sitting’ atop the paper. This issue pertained to only my prints, not others (of which I would possibly be hard-pressed to differentiate between inkjet or silver gelatin).
So a couple years ago, started making traditional darkroom prints, and while the learning and process can sometimes be infuriating, the results, as they say, justify the effort. I still scan negatives for posting to the web and using as a blueprint for the wet prints. But the print itself remains the ultimate reason and the best expression of photography, at least for me.
Out to Lunch
Menteur
I've had a traveling life and stopped buying printed books, including photo books a long time ago. Eventually, it all became baggage. With some exceptions, I focussed on online publications. Now that I'm retired, I know I did the right thing in that I don't want to live in a particular venue stuffed with paper and ink. Cheers, OtL