raid
Dad Photographer
My lens has serial number 2 232 319, which is outside the known numbers for 1937 and 1938.
1937 – 1930150-2219775
1938 – 2267991-2527984.
Marc Small once wrote me that my lens was made for the Contarex camera.
1937 – 1930150-2219775
1938 – 2267991-2527984.
Marc Small once wrote me that my lens was made for the Contarex camera.
Bingley
Mentor
Thank you William. My Sonnar collection includes both the Nikkor 50s (2.0 and 1.4) in LTM, and the Nikkor-SC 5cm 1.4 in S mount (in fact, I have two copies of the latter lens, including one recently CLA’d by DAG and that’s available for sale). Plus the Canon 50/1.5. And four Zeiss Sonnars, ranging from a 1943 5cm f1.5 in the 272***** serial number range Brian mentions above, the two Opton Sonnars mentioned above, and the modern C-Sonnar 50/1.5. I’ve also got several 85mm Sonnar formula lenses (two by Nikkor and a pre-war Zeiss Jena Sonnar 8.5cm f2.0). I love shooting these lenses, especially on my Leica camera bodies.
Bingley
Mentor
The Canon 50/1.5 is a very good lens (assuming you find a good sample). Canon optimized it for f.4 and that’s where I shoot it most often. I’ve got an album over on my Flickr devoted to photos made w/ this lens, if you want to check it out.Enjoy! Going to have to take my Nikkor 50/2 out now as a resultand will probably troll Eprey for 50/1.5's (with my budget? Well, actually Canon ones are usually not bad
f.hayek
Well-known
Brian, what do you see differentiating the CZJ 2/50 Sonnar form the later Nikkor 50/2 LTM (which you appear to recommend over the Nikkor 50/1,4)?
Retina43
Newbie
A fun afternoon with two fellow photographers made with my M10-P and my, Brian sourced, 1937 f2/5cm Sonnar #2040…
The two are very close. The coated Nikkor has more contrast, the Sonnar is better at preserving shadow detail. The color rendition of the Sonnar gives a deeper color in the absence of flare, maybe less transmission? I found a test with the two lenses done years ago. I need to repeat it. I have a series of tests to do, been extremely busy the last couple of months. August sees things clearing up. I'll start a "Pictures from any Sonnar lens" thread.
Last edited:
boojum
Mentor
You will find no argument from me. Long form for, "I agree." ;o) The Sonnar is a brilliant design. To crib from Newton, "if I have seen further [than others], it is by standing on the shoulders of giants." And while the quote refers to dwarves on the shoulders on the shoulders of giants this does not apply here. Herr Doktor Bertele was giant able to design a lens, based on earlier lenses, which still influences lens design today and has been copied in toto or in part for almost as long as it has been around. If you are going to steal, steal from the best.
I have a good stable of 50's. Canons, a good Pentax SMC f/1.4 (seven element), the Amotal and four Sonnars. The CZJ 272nnn and the Bertele, and two good J8's. I just have to learn how to take better photos. I have the gear, next the skill.
And special thanks to Brian for his guidance in building up this collection of gold. His support of the M8 family and the M9 is also spot on. The color and definition of these cameras is out there in quality. I love a good Sonnar on an M9. I'll see how it does on the M8.2, also. And maybe the X2D, too, now that it can crop to 24 x 26 to eliminate vignetting. Th FOV for the Sonnars is 45m covering medium format 44 x 33 sensor. For the other 50's the crop is a must.
Cheers, all.
1934 Carl Zeiss Jena 5cm F2, wide-open on the M Monochrom. I converted this lens to LTM using a tabbed J-8 focus mount, filed down the threads on the mount for 0.8m. This is the lens that I compare with my Bertele. Glass on this one is the best I've seen. I've had it for over 20 years, bought with a Nikon M nosync for $450.
Last edited:
boojum
Mentor
You have the unique and distinct advantage of knowing what you are doing. I cry foul. ;o)
Nikkor 5cm F1.5, Wide-Open on the M Monochrom:
I searched for one of these for a long time. Maybe 300 made in LTM?
Carl Zeiss Jena 5cm F1.5 Sonnar, 272 batch lens, wide-open on the M Monochrom. Original LTM. I still like the J-3 focus mount better.
In August- will bring the Nikkor 5cm F2, Bertele Sonnar, and a 5cm f2 Sonnar. I have three of them converted to LTM now, the 1934 uncoated lens and two 1940 coated lenses.
I searched for one of these for a long time. Maybe 300 made in LTM?
Carl Zeiss Jena 5cm F1.5 Sonnar, 272 batch lens, wide-open on the M Monochrom. Original LTM. I still like the J-3 focus mount better.
In August- will bring the Nikkor 5cm F2, Bertele Sonnar, and a 5cm f2 Sonnar. I have three of them converted to LTM now, the 1934 uncoated lens and two 1940 coated lenses.
brusby
Well-known
pyeh
Member of good standing
Boojum, is your Skyllaney Bertele a pre-production release or have they started producing them in earnest? I can't see anything on their website and I signed up for notifications previously.
boojum
Mentor
I am not sure but I do believe that this is a pre-production release. The Bertele blog on Skyllaney lays out that going forward the lens will be made by/in conjunction with Omnar. That should make this a pre-production release. It is exquisite. Skyllaney has to be very proud to have their name across the front of it. As here:
Brian, "Sonnar Brian" the Sonnar guru says this is the pinnacle of lens building art. I know little about this but can easily believe him as the fit and finish are world-class. The focus and iris rings move easily with just enough drag so that they hold their place. This is well thought out and well executed. It is a beautifully made machine and you do not have to be an engineer or machinist to recognize it.
And I love what it does with color. The colors do bloom. Not the slightly over-saturated current computer designed lenses pop but just luscious color. My attempt today to do a CZJ - Bertele test failed and I fell in the brambles and lost my phone. I'll try and find it again tomorrow morning. And I will do some good color tests of the Bertele and the CZJ 272 5cm f/1.5. I have some wonderful 50's and they all go well with the M9. Check this Rhodies one with the Amotal. The delilcate hues that the Amotal gets, the glow or "Cooke Look", and still with great detail. Shot at f/4.0. If I had the Bertele when I took those photos I would have compared them.
Brian, "Sonnar Brian" the Sonnar guru says this is the pinnacle of lens building art. I know little about this but can easily believe him as the fit and finish are world-class. The focus and iris rings move easily with just enough drag so that they hold their place. This is well thought out and well executed. It is a beautifully made machine and you do not have to be an engineer or machinist to recognize it.
And I love what it does with color. The colors do bloom. Not the slightly over-saturated current computer designed lenses pop but just luscious color. My attempt today to do a CZJ - Bertele test failed and I fell in the brambles and lost my phone. I'll try and find it again tomorrow morning. And I will do some good color tests of the Bertele and the CZJ 272 5cm f/1.5. I have some wonderful 50's and they all go well with the M9. Check this Rhodies one with the Amotal. The delilcate hues that the Amotal gets, the glow or "Cooke Look", and still with great detail. Shot at f/4.0. If I had the Bertele when I took those photos I would have compared them.
pyeh
Member of good standing
Thanks Boojum. Lucky you to get an early sample.
Sorry to hear you had a tumble mishap. I hope you didn't hurt yourself.
Sorry to hear you had a tumble mishap. I hope you didn't hurt yourself.
boojum
Mentor
I have been incredibly lucky to have this lens fall into my hands. And just a few days after the CZJ 272 5cm f/1.5 fell into my hands. I really may buy a raft of lottery tickets. But I doubt it. I may very well have used up my luck for a long while.
All that was injured was my pride. And after this recent run of luck it needed some trimming back. I am on blood thinners so because of the brambles and thorns I was bleeding like the proverbial stuck pig. I was lying downhill on my back in a sea of brambles, tangled in the vines and other undergrowth. All I could think was, "Oh, you damned old fool, you should be more careful." And getting up was difficult so I wound up crawling across the deck on my hands and knees to get to the stairs so I could right myself. Oh, the sacrifices I make for lens testing. LOL
Tomorrow first find the phone, then off to the Alderbrook section for the colorful house to use it again in a lens test.
A CCD Leica with vintage lens is a beautiful thing.
BE CAREFUL!
I am biased towards Sonnars and CCD based cameras. I also have the Z5 and can use it with the Sonnars, but end up using my other lenses on it- like the Canon 50/0.95. I will do some tests with it in August.
I am biased towards Sonnars and CCD based cameras. I also have the Z5 and can use it with the Sonnars, but end up using my other lenses on it- like the Canon 50/0.95. I will do some tests with it in August.
brusby
Well-known
Is your Zeiss quite a bit sharper than the Nikkor as it appears here or might the differences have been the result of something like a bit of camera shake or missed focus with the Nikkor? I wouldn't have predicted this much difference.
The Zeiss lens, a 272 series- is that much sharper and has better flatness of field than the Nikkor. Zeiss reformulated the Sonnar sometime between the 255 batch, 267 batch, and 272 batch. The 255- marked "T" appears with uncoated lenses, I have a pair. 267- stop down to F22, and a bit sharper. 272 batch: Every one I've seen, Zeiss original, ZK, and J-3: noticeably sharper. After that- 285 batch, same formula but quality is spottier. I have a 285 batch J-3 with perfect glass, assembled in USSR as practice. I had to change the spacing of the rear triplet- the barrel was too short. Sharp as the 272.
It's the Schott glass. They sprinkled fairy dust into it to focus photons using magic.
Last edited:
Nikkor 5cm F1.5, wide-open, on Tripod- Leica M9.
272 series CZJ Sonnar 5cm F1.5, wide-open, tripod, Leica M9.
Click on link, and load full resolution JPEGs. Taken a couple of minutes apart, as soon as I could change lenses.
The Nikkor- "Lifetime Bucket List Lens" for me. Would not trade it for anything. But- the Zeiss lens is better. Would not trade it for anything. The Jupiter-3 focus mount is better designed than the Zeiss LTM, more robust. The best of both worlds- a 272 Sonnar custom mounted in a Jupiter-3 focus mount. A lens like that deserves a lot of use.
272 series CZJ Sonnar 5cm F1.5, wide-open, tripod, Leica M9.
Click on link, and load full resolution JPEGs. Taken a couple of minutes apart, as soon as I could change lenses.
The Nikkor- "Lifetime Bucket List Lens" for me. Would not trade it for anything. But- the Zeiss lens is better. Would not trade it for anything. The Jupiter-3 focus mount is better designed than the Zeiss LTM, more robust. The best of both worlds- a 272 Sonnar custom mounted in a Jupiter-3 focus mount. A lens like that deserves a lot of use.
Last edited:
brusby
Well-known
Very interesting. I'm not usually concerned with achieving the nth degree of sharpness, but the Zeiss definitely conveys the FEEL of cut stone on the headstone in the foreground better than the Nikkor. It might have something to do with the cooler white balance of the Zeiss image but it just feels more real to me than the Nikkor image, which gives me more of the feeling of a representation. Nice!Nikkor 5cm F1.5, wide-open, on Tripod- Leica M9.
272 series CZJ Sonnar 5cm F1.5, wide-open, tripod, Leica M9.
Click on link, and load full resolution JPEGs. Taken a couple of minutes apart, as soon as I could change lenses.
The Nikkor- "Lifetime Bucket List Lens" for me. Would not trade it for anything. But- the Zeiss lens is better. Would not trade it for anything. The Jupiter-3 focus mount is better designed than the Zeiss LTM, more robust. The best of both worlds- a 272 Sonnar custom mounted in a Jupiter-3 focus mount. A lens like that deserves a lot of use.