The well documented "vertical line" problem rears its ugly head

[dcsang]

I've only had time to really really look at the files today.

While going through some of my high ISO (1250 and 2500) shots I saw the dreaded "vertical line" show up - I went back and began examining my ISO160 files - yep, it's there.

At all ISO's the line is there.
In the same spot, it's there.

Thankfully I haven't bothered to "get rid of" my film M's
Thankfully my dealer has told me to bring the camera back.
It will be shipped off to Leica for, from what I've read, a circuit board fix.

Am I upset?
Well.. sort of.
I mean, I realize that this crap happens but I guess the fact that Leica hasn't "got it right" yet with even the most recent cameras (mine's 3329xxx) is, well, a bit mind boggling.

I know Emraphoto had big concerns for a similar problem so we'll see how long this takes.

I have been informed that it could be "gone" for a while (2 months) but in the meantime I'll have to "suck it up" with the M7 and M2 and my Canon 5D's.. it's not for having a lack of cameras that I'm concerned.. that's for sure..

Cheers
Dave

ISO320

100% Crop

 

[somecanuckchick]

ugh. I was going to refrain from telling you - once again - that you should have never acquired an M8... and waited for the M9. Here's hoping Leica can fix their sh*t*e... and that this is not the first of many of trips back to the factory. meh.

 

[dcsang]

Well, I'm just hoping that they'll 'fix it' and it'll be all done and complete and I'll be happy.

The camera, itself, is a pretty good piece of equipment - these things that are being experienced by myself and others, are part of the whole "process" with Leica unfortunately.

The fact that they do not have a "big enough" company to warrant "proper" production and quality control seems, well, silly but it's a fact

Anyway, it's back to my dealer on Tuesday to be shipped post haste into the ether so that the magical elves at Leica can do whatever it is they do to fix it....

Dave

 

[gb hill]

Thats bad luck Dave, but I'm sure Leica will do you right like everyone else. You said it will require a circuit board fix, so the problem with the vertical line showing up isn't in the sensor it's self, or do you know?

 

[dcsang]

Thats bad luck Dave, but I'm sure Leica will do you right like everyone else. You said it will require a circuit board fix, so the problem with the vertical line showing up isn't in the sensor it's self, or do you know?

I'm guessing based on a number of threads over at the Leica User Forum.

Search on the term "vertical line" and a lot of threads come back but specifically:
http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/leica-m8-forum/48667-m8-sensor-problem.html#post513910

in this thread:
http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/leica-m8-forum/48667-m8-sensor-problem.html

Cheers,
Dave

 

[Keith]

I like your attitude to this ... a lot of M8 owners go right off the deep end when something like this surfaces with their new camera which usually creates a thread that turns into a total sh*t fight ... often caused by people who have never actually experienced this flawed masterpiece.

I hope they sort your camera quickly and I hope you can survive without it for a couple of months ... because they sure are fun to use!

... goes off to look very closely at latest M8 files!

 

[HKHoward]

My first M8 developed frozen shutter after 7 months of use and was replaced. The replacement developed a dead pixel line after 23 days of use and was fixed in Solms with a 10 day turn around. That was 6 months ago and so far no further problems.
Howard

 

[dcsang]

Hey John,

I'm already way ahead of you.

I have uploaded the files and I'm sending a "letter" to them documenting location of said line - i.e. 220pixels in from the left hand side of the image

I have also uploaded web sized, 100% crop AND DNG files - that way the can see, at all ISO's the issue.

I am also including links to the Leica User Forum to show them that the concern is not just "user error" or such.

I will be going through my dealer for this - when I called him this morning about it he stated he hadn't heard about it before; and I don't doubt him but he asked typical questions "Is it only at high ISO's?", "Is it something that you feel is serious?" , "Can you live without the camera for a length of time?" - so he's setting expectations at least - I can live with that.

He's been good so far in dealing with this and I trust him so far in dealing with this. We'll see what comes of this when I return it to him on Tuesday.

Cheers,
Dave

P.S. Keith, I guess it's because I've come to learn, in my short (or long depending on how you look at it) life, that really; cameras (like any other "thing" in life) are just "things" - there's far more important and human matters that we should be getting worked up about

 

[Ben Z]

First, I'm really sorry to read about this turn of events. I just checked a couple of the very few shots @ 1250 I have with my M8 (same serial# range) and I can't find any vertical line, so I don't imagine it's in lower ISO shots either, but obviously this problem could develop in time so don't think I'm downplaying the problem when I ask the following: If it's in the outer area of the frame and you need to crop it and then enlarge it to 100% to see it, how much likelihood would it ever actually impact you in practical terms, on a print? Again, you deserve to have a camera functioning at 100%, so the question isn't meant to imply you should accept it, I'm just trying to figure out if, when it happens to my M8, will it be something that will actually impact the prints unless I do severe cropping/enlarging.

Second, correct me if I'm wrong Dave but didn't you just take delivery on this camera a week ago? Did you try getting the dealer to exchange it?

 

[dcsang]

First, I'm really sorry to read about this turn of events. I just checked a couple of the very few shots @ 1250 I have with my M8 (same serial# range) and I can't find any vertical line, so I don't imagine it's in lower ISO shots either, but obviously this problem could develop in time so don't think I'm downplaying the problem when I ask the following: If it's in the outer area of the frame and you need to crop it and then enlarge it to 100% to see it, how much likelihood would it ever actually impact you in practical terms, on a print? Again, you deserve to have a camera functioning at 100%, so the question isn't meant to imply you should accept it, I'm just trying to figure out if, when it happens to my M8, will it be something that will actually impact the prints unless I do severe cropping/enlarging.

Second, correct me if I'm wrong Dave but didn't you just take delivery on this camera a week ago? Did you try getting the dealer to exchange it?

Hey Ben,

I'm going to print some of these off tomorrow to determine just how "prevalent" this is in print - for all I know, it may not show up at all.
I'll definitely let you know because I don't have to return the camera per se but my dealer will be taking it back and sending it to Leica on my behalf.

Brian @ Harry's Pro Shop has told me that he will take care of it from his end; this, to me, shows me that he's a man of his word, as I had asked him prior to purchasing whom would deal with the issues should I experience any. He had answered that he would take care of them. Good to know that imho.

Like I said, I'm not so much "upset" as "disappointed" but I also know that this is part of having to be an "early adopter" - we must remember that this is Leica's "first" generation digital M. I guess though, that the "inspected by" document that comes with the camera really means that they looked it over and all the "parts" that go into the box were there.. and doesn't really mean "Yes, we did a complete and full inspection of the camera, sensor etc."

I would agree that I (and everyone else that shells out $5000+ for this camera) deserves to have one that's completely free of any issues. After all, Leica want to pride themselves on quality (or a least that's what I always thought they prided themselves on..)

Go figure

Cheers,
Dave

 

[Ben Z]

Maybe I'm missing something, but I don't understand what's so great about a dealer who isn't offering you an exchange on a defective camera that's only a week old. If you'd bought it from big, impersonal B&H by mail-order they would take it back and send you a new one.

 

[Ben Z]

I can tell you that, out of the camera dealers up here in Toronto, there is only one camera dealer that will offer a "money back guarantee" on equipment (at my last check mind you) returned within 14 days of purchase and that is Henry's. You do that two times though and you get black listed with that retailer and you won't be able to have such leeway on your next purchase.

Everyone else, including my regular camera shop, Downtown Camera, do not offer exchange off the hop. They would do the exact same thing and send the camera back in to the manufacturer because it's still under warranty.

And then they cry bitter tears because people buy mailorder :bang: I've never had a problem returning a defective item within 14 days to B&H (you don't have to have it there in 14 days, just notify them and get an RMA in 14 days), and I've read and heard that Popflash (Tony Rose) who I bought my M8 from, is similarly very customer-service oriented. I understand that there has to be a time-limit after which you have to go the warranty route, but 2 weeks is still reasonable to expect an exchange. Even if the laws don't specify it, good business sense does: you just dropped almost six grand in their store! They should cut you the slack for a couple days over the 14, vs lose your future business to mailorder.

 

[dcsang]

It's cool Fred.. thanks.

I dropped the camera off today and I'm guessing it will be a little while before I get it.
I have to admit that Leica Germany were fast in getting me the UV/IR cut filters - registered the camera on the 17th of April and they were ready for pick up from FedEx yesterday.

I'm putting my faith in my dealer so... here we go..

Dave