kshapero
South Florida Man
When shooting out in the street, I have noticed an increase in tension from 3 places.
1. Feel like Police in general are on edge when shooting.
2. Feel like random subjects are less accommodating and sometimes just not accommodating at all.
3. Feel like business owners are more restrictive about photographers.
I have been shooting "the street" for 40 years, so of course, I have seen this before. But it now it seems increased. Recent events over the last 15 years, seems to have changed everything. maybe I am wrong.
1. Feel like Police in general are on edge when shooting.
2. Feel like random subjects are less accommodating and sometimes just not accommodating at all.
3. Feel like business owners are more restrictive about photographers.
I have been shooting "the street" for 40 years, so of course, I have seen this before. But it now it seems increased. Recent events over the last 15 years, seems to have changed everything. maybe I am wrong.
AlTheKiller
Established
The internet changed it in a big way. People are worried their image will be online yet 90% constantly post "selfies" with their location info.
kshapero
South Florida Man
LOL, the other side of the problem, yes.
xayraa33
rangefinder user and fancier
The so called supposed "terrorist" and "paedophile" around every street corner and the ever growing militarization of police has greatly contributed to the increased tension phenomena.
Ko.Fe.
Lenses 35/21 Gears 46/20
World is different... and I'm clueless about SP in USA (which isn't entire "World" for me).
In Canada, where I'm... If I ask to take picture sometimes people will asks if it is for Facebook, they seems to be not into been published on FB. But some, once they see me with camera, are willingly asking if I'm newspaper guy
And I'm having hard time to say "No".
In Canada, where I'm... If I ask to take picture sometimes people will asks if it is for Facebook, they seems to be not into been published on FB. But some, once they see me with camera, are willingly asking if I'm newspaper guy
And I'm having hard time to say "No".
f16sunshine
Moderator
Parents are creepy these days.
I had a mom give me a foul look and shield their kid when I lifted my camera to take a picture of my Girlfriend at Pike place last week.
Is it really so close in a parents mind that they are in reflex mode?
My GF has kids. When she noticed the woman she actually said sorry.
I grilled her on it.. She said she would have reacted similarly.
She actually did not realize how offensive it was to treat another human like a criminal.
It turned into a horrible awkward afternoon.
My parents never had such suspicion when I was a kid.
I think the constant fear mongering and speed of communication makes our world scarier.
At some point we'll all have to chose to be less afraid in order to take back the sense of safety.
Yes there are real threats but there are even more exaggerated ones.
I had a mom give me a foul look and shield their kid when I lifted my camera to take a picture of my Girlfriend at Pike place last week.
Is it really so close in a parents mind that they are in reflex mode?
My GF has kids. When she noticed the woman she actually said sorry.
I grilled her on it.. She said she would have reacted similarly.
She actually did not realize how offensive it was to treat another human like a criminal.
It turned into a horrible awkward afternoon.
My parents never had such suspicion when I was a kid.
I think the constant fear mongering and speed of communication makes our world scarier.
At some point we'll all have to chose to be less afraid in order to take back the sense of safety.
Yes there are real threats but there are even more exaggerated ones.
Hsg
who dares wins
Alex Webb photographed for years in one of the most dangerous places in the world, Mexico US border.
So, as crude as it might sound, a street photographer must have guts and determination if his to create art out on the streets...
If it was easy, anybody could do it.
So, as crude as it might sound, a street photographer must have guts and determination if his to create art out on the streets...
If it was easy, anybody could do it.
Lauffray
Invisible Cities
I've been asked which newspaper I work for and whether the pictures will end up online, very often I smile, I say I don't have a facebook and I shoot film which requires dev and scanning. I don't know if they really believe it but for now it works.
If someone reacts angrily or aggressively from the start I just ignore them, no point arguing, otherwise I try to look friendly, confident and calm. If you start believing you're doing something reprehensible people can smell it off you
If someone reacts angrily or aggressively from the start I just ignore them, no point arguing, otherwise I try to look friendly, confident and calm. If you start believing you're doing something reprehensible people can smell it off you
Jason Sprenger
Well-known
It's been going on for a while now.
I remember my late father commenting on this more than 10 years ago and its only intensified since then. He used to be a newspaper photog at one time and he'd often say that such photography was rude in that not everyone was happy about getting their picture in the paper, e.g. pictures on courthouse steps, arrests, victims of crime, fire, etc.
But it's way beyond folks simply being embarrassed now.
The police are on edge because they see photography and video as a threat to their jobs and criminal prosecution.
Business owners also see photography and video as a threat for liabilities, both real and imagined.
Ordinary folks are wary because they identify with celebrities who are shown to be stalked and hounded by paparazzi. Consequently, there's an irrational perception of a right to privacy even in public places.
Therefore now, basically anyone doing candid image capture outside of a tourist zone is seen as doing something threatening and menacing.
As we know, photography and video's only real threat is to show how things actually appear, but not a lot of people like that these days.
I believe the way to push through this evil condition is through more photography. The unstoppable prevalence of camera phones will do more to protect photogs than the law is certain to do.
It's just going to take a generation for the culture to acclimate and for the two-legged cockroaches who count-on pushing people around to be driven further into shadows.
I remember my late father commenting on this more than 10 years ago and its only intensified since then. He used to be a newspaper photog at one time and he'd often say that such photography was rude in that not everyone was happy about getting their picture in the paper, e.g. pictures on courthouse steps, arrests, victims of crime, fire, etc.
But it's way beyond folks simply being embarrassed now.
The police are on edge because they see photography and video as a threat to their jobs and criminal prosecution.
Business owners also see photography and video as a threat for liabilities, both real and imagined.
Ordinary folks are wary because they identify with celebrities who are shown to be stalked and hounded by paparazzi. Consequently, there's an irrational perception of a right to privacy even in public places.
Therefore now, basically anyone doing candid image capture outside of a tourist zone is seen as doing something threatening and menacing.
As we know, photography and video's only real threat is to show how things actually appear, but not a lot of people like that these days.
I believe the way to push through this evil condition is through more photography. The unstoppable prevalence of camera phones will do more to protect photogs than the law is certain to do.
It's just going to take a generation for the culture to acclimate and for the two-legged cockroaches who count-on pushing people around to be driven further into shadows.
filmdood
-
More and more people use cameras -- the sale of cell phones with cameras is way, way up -- and a certain percentage of these "cameraperson" are creeps. Then the Internet is there, advertising bad photography. I understand people who look down into TLRs have very little trouble on the street. Progress ain't always...progress.
kshapero
South Florida Man
Instant news and instant access creates a world were there is a bad man behind every tree.
squirrel$$$bandit
Mentor
Treating our kids as helpless would-be victims does them a grave disservice and helps them to feel paranoid and vulnerable. The idea that any interest in the image of a child must invariably be prurient in nature speaks to the disgusting extent to which our culture has sexualized the very young.
There are real threats, sure, but who wants to go through life fearing them?
Anyway, I don't photograph many strangers anymore. I miss it, but I also don't want to hurt or frighten anyone.
harpofreely
Well-known
As much as the above points are true & have a chilling effect on street photography, I often feel that an even larger issue is that in many places, people simply don't participate in much "life" on the streets these days. Walking from retail store to retail store, face glued to phone, dressed like a slob - what is there to photograph?
This picture...
...will never happen again not because parents are paranoid about photographers, but because parents don't allow _any_ unsupervised activity - and recent "free range" parents keep getting arrested or visited by DSS.
The paranoia, apathy, and disengagement that characterizes 21st century life is eroding public photographic opportunities (and so much more of our social fabric) long before the about-to-take-the-picture moment wherein one holds back because of immediate tension.
This picture...
...will never happen again not because parents are paranoid about photographers, but because parents don't allow _any_ unsupervised activity - and recent "free range" parents keep getting arrested or visited by DSS.
The paranoia, apathy, and disengagement that characterizes 21st century life is eroding public photographic opportunities (and so much more of our social fabric) long before the about-to-take-the-picture moment wherein one holds back because of immediate tension.
I photograph on the streets of NYC a lot. Most of the time when someone is upset at me, it is over an inanimate object such as store front or store window. Most of the time, people leave me alone. I generally don't photograph kids or families that I don't know. It just isn't worth the trouble and I understand their side of the issue. There is plenty of other stuff to photograph. That's my choice though.
f16sunshine
Moderator
You're absolutely correct. It does a our kids a huge disservice.
The world is a place of wonder. In reality there are very few dangers.
I should be clear on my first post. My Girlfriend apologized to the creeped out woman not to me on her behalf.
Our later conversations revealed that in general, moms she knows behave just like this woman.
It's sad and terrible. I feel sick from this.
How will we have leaders in the future when their parents teach them the world is all predators?
A future of hawkish militarism? Is that where we are going?
Jamie Pillers
Skeptic
I'm with Andy regarding what's going on out on the streets. And I would add that in actuality, there are almost zero threats involved in me taking someone's picture on the street. I have no problem at all in someone taking my picture in a public space of any kind. What is the absolute worse thing that could happen with my picture? Being put up on the web? Some rangefinder nutcase posting it in a thread on Rangefinderforum.com?? If someone uses a picture of me to somehow defame me, then I have grounds to sue them and I'd be happy to take their money!
So, in my opinion, there are practically zero REAL threats to anyone having their picture taken on the street, and any of their concerns are clearly exaggerated.
Can anyone here come up with a REAL concern someone might have legitimately have about having their picture taken in a public space? (Other than maybe being caught with 'the other woman'?)
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xayraa33
rangefinder user and fancier
I find it odd that in this day and age of almost everyone has a photo taking cell-phone permanently glued to their hand and face, that people get upset at someone pointing a Leica or Zorki or a Rollei TLR in their general direction.
It could be as simple as they don't like to have their picture taken by an individual they don't know? It could be someone who isn't doing something they should be doing. There could immigration concerns. I'm not saying these are real, but people are not thinking that we photograph for fun because most people don't care about this aspect of photography. Sure, we are allowed to photograph anything we want in the street here in the US. However, think of the other side of the coin... do you think they are thinking in their heads that we are trying to make great photos / Art? Probably not...the NEWS makes sure people are paranoid. Just try going to a suburban neighborhood and sit in your car outside someone's home you don't know... what will happen?
I like to photograph in public. However, I understand there is another side to it all and try to respect people's concerns whether real or not.
back alley
IMAGES
as much as i love 'street' photography, harpo said it best, in that there is little 'real life' happening on the streets these days. the world of hcb etc is long gone now...kinda sad really.
for me, the idea of shooting people on the street has been losing it's appeal more and more...i have been thinking about what i would like to photograph now so have been thinking about what i like...and people are way down on the list these days.
for me, the idea of shooting people on the street has been losing it's appeal more and more...i have been thinking about what i would like to photograph now so have been thinking about what i like...and people are way down on the list these days.
daveleo
what?
Complex topic, that I have little to zero experience.
But this one case.
Long long ago, I was taking a photo of a 6th grade class where I had just done some "Mr. Engineer" airplane demos. One boy came up and said his mom told him never to let a picture be taken of him "Because her ex-boyfriend said he would kill them if he ever found where they lived".
I agree with the statements above about unfounded paranoia, but once in a very rare while, the fear of photographs is justified.
But this one case.
Long long ago, I was taking a photo of a 6th grade class where I had just done some "Mr. Engineer" airplane demos. One boy came up and said his mom told him never to let a picture be taken of him "Because her ex-boyfriend said he would kill them if he ever found where they lived".
I agree with the statements above about unfounded paranoia, but once in a very rare while, the fear of photographs is justified.