back alley
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do you think that one has to suffer for his 'art'?
the tales are endless of the great artists being miserable, tortured people who cannot find happiness in life but only in their art.
whadyathink?
the tales are endless of the great artists being miserable, tortured people who cannot find happiness in life but only in their art.
whadyathink?
Keith
The best camera is one that still works!
The pragmatists verses the emotionally challenged ... this should be fun! 
oftheherd
Mentor
Perhaps it depends on where one places one's priorities?
maddoc
... likes film again.
I believe firmly in that and not only in art (where I hardly know anybody famous personally) but in science also ...
peterm1
Mentor
I think that creative people often have to look deep inside themselves for inspiration. A process which itself can be tortuous. And sometimes its true too, that artists have to draw on their life experience - and those who have led a full rich and dramtic life may have a bigger story to tell. But equally its true thats some artists impose more pain on their loved ones than on themselves. ie they make others suffer for their art. The great artists certainly seem to feel more deeply.
helen.HH
A smile & a wink…
I believe firmly in that and not only in art (where I hardly know anybody famous personally) but in science also ...
Yes Gabor Quite True
That is why we call You The "Mad Doc" !!!...
Chriscrawfordphoto
Real Men Shoot Film.
"suffering for art" is usually a concept invoked to justify keeping artists in poverty, rather than a description of the artist's feelings or psychological state.
As for tortured souls, some artists were, some were very happy.
As for tortured souls, some artists were, some were very happy.
Ranchu
-
Suffering is necessary, how else would we know anything? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0iYdFNkEq0Y
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DanOnRoute66
I now live in Des Moines
Suffering is inevitable, even for those who aren't artists.
SciAggie
Well-known
How about art being a means of expression for an already suffering soul?
freeranger
Well-known
I believe that others should suffer my art.
alan davus
Well-known
That explains why I'm a crap photographer. I've lived a full and happy life without any real sufferring. Dammm!!!!!
maddoc
... likes film again.
Yes Gabor Quite True
That is why we call You The "Mad Doc" !!!...
... I have already taken leave of my senses !
Brian Legge
Mentor
I think that is easily crossed with extremely driven to improve/in their craft. People who are satisfied early and stop growing are less likely to be successful in the big picture compared to those who are constantly struggling to improve, trying new things, etc.
Of course, that is true of almost any craft. Good is the enemy of great and early contentment can lead to plateauing at 'good'.
Of course, that is true of almost any craft. Good is the enemy of great and early contentment can lead to plateauing at 'good'.
Paolo Bonello
3 from 36 on a good day.
I love that line! lol.
Roger Hicks
Mentor
A lot depends on how you define 'suffer'. You have to work hard at it; at first, you are unlikely to make much money; only a few ever make a lot of money; many have to do something else to make ends meet, or simply drop out.
On the other hand, there is the reward of doing what you want to do; a much greater freedom from office politics; and fans and fan mail, not to mention the most sincere admiration of all: a cheque.
Besides, I'm not convinced that serious artists have a choice. Art is not something they do. It is something they are. It's not a career choice. It's a personality. As Bulwer Lytton said, "Talent does what it can; genius does what it must." It may not always be great genius; it may be weak and faltering; it may be side-tracked by all kinds of things; but it does what it must.
Cheers,
R.
On the other hand, there is the reward of doing what you want to do; a much greater freedom from office politics; and fans and fan mail, not to mention the most sincere admiration of all: a cheque.
Besides, I'm not convinced that serious artists have a choice. Art is not something they do. It is something they are. It's not a career choice. It's a personality. As Bulwer Lytton said, "Talent does what it can; genius does what it must." It may not always be great genius; it may be weak and faltering; it may be side-tracked by all kinds of things; but it does what it must.
Cheers,
R.
sparrow6224
Well-known
Joseph Conrad who was a very great artist and a wretched human being wrote once that as far as he could tell people divided themselves into two exclusive categories: the prisoners and the fools. And it was the great advantage of the fool not to know he was a fool; whereas the prisoner always knows he is a prisoner.
Which is to say, at a certain level of awareness, additional suffering is in store. Artists are in the prisoner category only.
Also, the greatest art generally is not comic art, but tragic art (the visual arts have a third category, abstraction; as does music; the narrative arts generally do not handle abstraction all that well). Anyway the tragic in art involves our relationship to suffering; it leads the audience empathically through an intense exposure to suffering; this in turn strengthens us, prepares us, for the suffering that is inevitable in actual life. For the artist, though, of the tragic cast of mind, there is often a lot of dark struggle.
Which is to say, at a certain level of awareness, additional suffering is in store. Artists are in the prisoner category only.
Also, the greatest art generally is not comic art, but tragic art (the visual arts have a third category, abstraction; as does music; the narrative arts generally do not handle abstraction all that well). Anyway the tragic in art involves our relationship to suffering; it leads the audience empathically through an intense exposure to suffering; this in turn strengthens us, prepares us, for the suffering that is inevitable in actual life. For the artist, though, of the tragic cast of mind, there is often a lot of dark struggle.
haempe
Well-known
Better so than me. I suffer all day without becomming a great photographer... or what ever...:bang:
Chriscrawfordphoto
Real Men Shoot Film.
I agree with all of this, Roger.
gekopaca
French photographer
There is a text of one of my favorite authors (Rodrigo García, an Argentine playwright) that speaks ironically about this issue in one of his pieces entitled "Human Gardening".
I have the French version, so I will humbly try to translate it for you, but maybe you can find the Rodrigo García texts in English.
"I hesitate between going well and going bad. I want to be an artist, so I must choose.
An artist, or he's at the bottom of the hole, or he's ahead at full speed.
One or the other, but thoroughly. Be fully thoroughly: thoroughly well or thoroughly bad.
You are fine, okay, but you go fully thoroughly.
You are going badly, okay, but you go fully thoroughly.
What we can not do if we want to be an artist is to pass unnoticed.
Living in semi-shade. Never go for it.
If you live like everyone else, you will never be recognized as an artist.
As an artist, you have to do weird things.
You have to live more intensely, for good or evil. Crossing the line.
And then talk about it. Speaking of your excess. Talk to everyone about something that nobody knows. Tell everyone your excess.
You should not worry about it, I did not say that, because the artist must never think.
No sir: the artist must surpass himself.
So I decided and I told myself since I'm not gifted in painting or in literature, I make music. In music, everyone is good:
this is not a profession or an art, or anything. To get noticed in music, just put the package.
Then, we must define a style: I live in debauchery, I get stoned, I **** everyone I can?
Either I'm going crazy and depressed, I suffer, I am drunk, I pride myself and throw myself on the balcony?
I must make a choice. Marketing issue.
Gauguin spent a lifetime of debauchery.
Van Gogh spent a lifetime suffering.
Warhol: A life of debauchery
Cioran: a lifetime of suffering.
No need to have something to say to be an artist, what is needed is a public life beyond the line.
My rule is this:
I have nothing to say but if I'm in excess, I will have success.
And it rhymes."
"J’hésite entre aller bien et aller mal. Je veux être artiste, alors je dois choisir.
Parce qu’un artiste, soit il est au fond du trou, soit il avance à fond la caisse.
L’un ou l’autre, mais à fond. Être à fond : à fond la caisse ou au fond du trou.
Tu vas bien, d’accord, mais tu y vas à fond.
Tu vas mal, d’accord, mais tu y vas à fond.
Ce qu’on ne peut pas faire, si on veut être artiste, c’est passer inaperçu.
Vivre en demi-teinte. Ne jamais y aller à fond.
Si tu vis comme tout le monde, tu ne seras jamais reconnu comme artiste.
En tant qu’artiste, tu dois faire des choses bizarres.
Tu dois vivre plus intensément, en bien ou en mal. Dépasser les bornes.
Et ensuite en parler. Parler de tes excès. Parler à tout le monde de quelque chose que personne ne connaît. Raconter à tout le monde tes excès.
Il ne faut pas non plus se prendre la tête là-dessus, je n’ai pas dit ça, car l’artiste ne doit jamais penser.
Non monsieur: l’artiste doit se dépasser.
Alors je me suis décidé et je me suis dit : vu que je ne suis doué ni pour la peinture ni pour la littérature, je vais faire de la musique. En musique, n’importe qui est bon :
ce n’est pas un métier, ni un art, ni rien. Pour se faire remarquer en musique,
il suffit de mettre le paquet.
Ensuite, il faut définir un style : Je vis dans la débauche, je me défonce, je baise tout ce qui passe?
Ou bien je déprime et je deviens fou, je souffre, je me bourre la gueule, je me pique et je me jette du balcon?
Il faut faire un choix. Question de marketing.
Gauguin a passé toute une vie de débauche.
Van Gogh a passé toute une vie à souffrir.
Warhol : Toute une vie de débauche
Cioran : toute une vie à souffrir.
Pas besoin d’avoir quelque chose à dire pour être artiste, ce qu’il faut c’est une vie publique qui dépasse les bornes.
Ma règle est la suivante :
Je n’ai rien à dire, mais si je fais dans l’excès, j’aurai du succès.
Et ça rime."
I have the French version, so I will humbly try to translate it for you, but maybe you can find the Rodrigo García texts in English.
"I hesitate between going well and going bad. I want to be an artist, so I must choose.
An artist, or he's at the bottom of the hole, or he's ahead at full speed.
One or the other, but thoroughly. Be fully thoroughly: thoroughly well or thoroughly bad.
You are fine, okay, but you go fully thoroughly.
You are going badly, okay, but you go fully thoroughly.
What we can not do if we want to be an artist is to pass unnoticed.
Living in semi-shade. Never go for it.
If you live like everyone else, you will never be recognized as an artist.
As an artist, you have to do weird things.
You have to live more intensely, for good or evil. Crossing the line.
And then talk about it. Speaking of your excess. Talk to everyone about something that nobody knows. Tell everyone your excess.
You should not worry about it, I did not say that, because the artist must never think.
No sir: the artist must surpass himself.
So I decided and I told myself since I'm not gifted in painting or in literature, I make music. In music, everyone is good:
this is not a profession or an art, or anything. To get noticed in music, just put the package.
Then, we must define a style: I live in debauchery, I get stoned, I **** everyone I can?
Either I'm going crazy and depressed, I suffer, I am drunk, I pride myself and throw myself on the balcony?
I must make a choice. Marketing issue.
Gauguin spent a lifetime of debauchery.
Van Gogh spent a lifetime suffering.
Warhol: A life of debauchery
Cioran: a lifetime of suffering.
No need to have something to say to be an artist, what is needed is a public life beyond the line.
My rule is this:
I have nothing to say but if I'm in excess, I will have success.
And it rhymes."
"J’hésite entre aller bien et aller mal. Je veux être artiste, alors je dois choisir.
Parce qu’un artiste, soit il est au fond du trou, soit il avance à fond la caisse.
L’un ou l’autre, mais à fond. Être à fond : à fond la caisse ou au fond du trou.
Tu vas bien, d’accord, mais tu y vas à fond.
Tu vas mal, d’accord, mais tu y vas à fond.
Ce qu’on ne peut pas faire, si on veut être artiste, c’est passer inaperçu.
Vivre en demi-teinte. Ne jamais y aller à fond.
Si tu vis comme tout le monde, tu ne seras jamais reconnu comme artiste.
En tant qu’artiste, tu dois faire des choses bizarres.
Tu dois vivre plus intensément, en bien ou en mal. Dépasser les bornes.
Et ensuite en parler. Parler de tes excès. Parler à tout le monde de quelque chose que personne ne connaît. Raconter à tout le monde tes excès.
Il ne faut pas non plus se prendre la tête là-dessus, je n’ai pas dit ça, car l’artiste ne doit jamais penser.
Non monsieur: l’artiste doit se dépasser.
Alors je me suis décidé et je me suis dit : vu que je ne suis doué ni pour la peinture ni pour la littérature, je vais faire de la musique. En musique, n’importe qui est bon :
ce n’est pas un métier, ni un art, ni rien. Pour se faire remarquer en musique,
il suffit de mettre le paquet.
Ensuite, il faut définir un style : Je vis dans la débauche, je me défonce, je baise tout ce qui passe?
Ou bien je déprime et je deviens fou, je souffre, je me bourre la gueule, je me pique et je me jette du balcon?
Il faut faire un choix. Question de marketing.
Gauguin a passé toute une vie de débauche.
Van Gogh a passé toute une vie à souffrir.
Warhol : Toute une vie de débauche
Cioran : toute une vie à souffrir.
Pas besoin d’avoir quelque chose à dire pour être artiste, ce qu’il faut c’est une vie publique qui dépasse les bornes.
Ma règle est la suivante :
Je n’ai rien à dire, mais si je fais dans l’excès, j’aurai du succès.
Et ça rime."
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