lxmike
M2 fan.
Well in October I turn 50 and I have about £500 to spend, initially I thought I would get an XT10 body, but now that I have an X100, XE-1 and and X Pro 1 I am more than happy with my Fuji set up. My other thought would be to reacquaint myself with medium format and in particular a ramgefinder medium forma camera, one that is drawing me is the Bronica RF, however, I have a few questions, how reliable and robust is the RF? does it have any particular quirks?, what is it like to handle?
if anyone has any insights into the Bronica 645 RFor any recommendations regarding medium format rangefinders please feel free to share
as always thanks in advance for any help with the above questions
if anyone has any insights into the Bronica 645 RFor any recommendations regarding medium format rangefinders please feel free to share
as always thanks in advance for any help with the above questions
Spanik
Well-known
It's the camera with the best ergonomics I have around. It just all falls into place. The lenses are great and the viewfinder clear and easy to use. A bit limited in focal lenghts, nothing really wide or long. And easy to move the exposure compensation dial when taking out of the bag. Lightmeter is good for general photography but can be misled when high contrast is in the frame. Like full summer sun and under the trees with a light background.
The transport feels a bit weak and gritty (on mine at least), it doesn't turn butter smooth. The only weak point is the vertical rangefinder alignment. It is far to easy to have it disturbed, taking it from the shop after alignment home in a bag on the backseat was enough to have it out of line again. As usual YMMV.
The transport feels a bit weak and gritty (on mine at least), it doesn't turn butter smooth. The only weak point is the vertical rangefinder alignment. It is far to easy to have it disturbed, taking it from the shop after alignment home in a bag on the backseat was enough to have it out of line again. As usual YMMV.
lxmike
M2 fan.
back alley
IMAGES
on the bronica the finder is vertical...landscape shooting means turning the camera all the time.
the mamiya 6 is a fantastic camera and the mamiya lenses are great! but the winder mechanism is weak and cannot be fixed if broken.
the mamiya 6 is a fantastic camera and the mamiya lenses are great! but the winder mechanism is weak and cannot be fixed if broken.
lxmike
M2 fan.
again thank you, this sort of insight and advice is very helpful
FrankS
Registered User
I've owned both. I liked the Mamiya 6 better, not sure why., maybe because of the square. I could raise the camera to my eye without having to decide between horizontal and vertical. Both are electronic cameras and I just trusted my mechanical MF cameras more. (Just my personal irrational bias.) they were both good cameras and never let me down. I used them as my b+w camera for weddings along side my Nikon F4 with colour neg film.
lxmike
M2 fan.
many thanks, do you still shoot with them or do you mainly shoot your Fuji these days, like yourself I too have been recently bitten by the Fuji bug
Monz
Monz
Hi lxmike,
I have both Bronica RF 645 (with 65mm lens only) and Mamiay 6 (with all 3 lenses). Both are excellent cameras and both will produce stunning results. The lenses on the Mamiya 6 retract into the body making the system very compact. Even with the lens extended, there isn't that much size difference.
The Dream Team by Monz, on Flickr
I have both Bronica RF 645 (with 65mm lens only) and Mamiay 6 (with all 3 lenses). Both are excellent cameras and both will produce stunning results. The lenses on the Mamiya 6 retract into the body making the system very compact. Even with the lens extended, there isn't that much size difference.
The Dream Team by Monz, on Flickr
Lou Iaquinto
Tinshed
Hi Mike,
I bought mine new in 04 and quickly aquired the 45 and 100. Spanik is right about the lenses, its ergonomics and the film transport mechanism which stopped working in 2013. I sent it off to Eurohitech in London and it was like new when they returned it. I haven't had any further trouble and no vertical alignment problems. I haven't noticed any difficulty with the light meter but I am basically a happy snapper and shoot B&W so I have plenty of wiggle room.
The Bronica is a fun, easy to handle camera but if you're keen on trying medium format there are lots of choices.
Good luck with it and happy birthday!
Lou
I bought mine new in 04 and quickly aquired the 45 and 100. Spanik is right about the lenses, its ergonomics and the film transport mechanism which stopped working in 2013. I sent it off to Eurohitech in London and it was like new when they returned it. I haven't had any further trouble and no vertical alignment problems. I haven't noticed any difficulty with the light meter but I am basically a happy snapper and shoot B&W so I have plenty of wiggle room.
The Bronica is a fun, easy to handle camera but if you're keen on trying medium format there are lots of choices.
Good luck with it and happy birthday!
Lou
lxmike
M2 fan.
Hi lxmike,
I have both Bronica RF 645 (with 65mm lens only) and Mamiay 6 (with all 3 lenses). Both are excellent cameras and both will produce stunning results. The lenses on the Mamiya 6 retract into the body making the system very compact. Even with the lens extended, there isn't that much size difference.
The Dream Team by Monz, on Flickr
thanks, great photo by the way, three very nice cameras...GAS attack coming on
FrankS
Registered User
Traded the bronica rf for an M5 because I hadn't had one before. Traded the Mamiya 6 to get a Rolleiflex back that I had stupidly sold.
For b+w film, I'm using other medium format cameras the most, along with the Fuji digitals.
jim_jm
Well-known
I've had the RF645 for several years now and haven't had any problems. Like others have mentioned, the control layout and ergonomics are great. The camera feels solid and is the same size and weight as my Nikon F100. I have heard of others having issues with the film advance, but I just take more care when winding on.
VF is nice and bright and the meter has been very accurate for me. The shutter makes a unique wheezing sound, but it's never been a problem either.
Keep in mind there are 2 versions: the original with 65/135 framelines and the second with 65/100 framelines. Bronica originally introduced a 135mm lens with the RF645, but realized the RF was not accurate enough for such a long focal length. They came out with a 100mm lens and changed the camera's framelines for this.
It's my main camera for backpacking, so it's been really reliable and good on battery usage.
VF is nice and bright and the meter has been very accurate for me. The shutter makes a unique wheezing sound, but it's never been a problem either.
Keep in mind there are 2 versions: the original with 65/135 framelines and the second with 65/100 framelines. Bronica originally introduced a 135mm lens with the RF645, but realized the RF was not accurate enough for such a long focal length. They came out with a 100mm lens and changed the camera's framelines for this.
It's my main camera for backpacking, so it's been really reliable and good on battery usage.
Seems the Bronica RF645 was introduced just as the market for such cameras was declining, and so production numbers were somewhat limited. But IMO it was the most advanced technically.
Early-on, there was a 135mm lens offered with matching framelines in the viewfinder. Due to manufacturing tolerances, some body/135 lens sets had trouble with accurate focus. The UK distributor on their own set up a service for matching a customer's 135mm lens with their RF645 body, a good solution.
But Bronica had been bought by Tamron as I recall, and the corporate decision was to recall all RF645 bodies and 135mm lenses. The 135mm lenses were replaced with 100mm lenses, and the cameras were refitted with 100mm framelines. (Jim and I appear to have posted this tidbit about the same time!) The shorter focal length was better able to withstand existing manufacturing tolerances, it appears.
Not all cameras and lenses were returned for the recall campaign, so some of the originals are still out there in the used market. It may still be possible to get the viewfinder frameline mask changed...
Cameras manufactured after this focal length change have serial numbers starting with 11, while the original body serials began with 00. Of course bodies with 00 serial numbers are likely to have been refitted in recall, but not all.
BTW, there is no frameline in the viewfinder for the wide 45mm lens. Instead, this lens comes with an external finder. I found that the whole VF window was a reasonable approximation of the field of view, however. I've wondered... had the camera been originally designed for 100mm at the long end, if the VF magnification were a little lower this might have allowed proper parallax-corrected built-in 45mm framelines.
I bought a new RF645 in 2003 under a rebate program, with all three lenses (45, 65, 100). A much nicer camera all-round than my previous Fuji GS645S. And it reminded me a lot of my well-loved Minolta CLE. These are both all-time favorites.
Obviously I can't suggest that you will like the RF645 as much as I, but it's a wonderful camera. So much that I bought a second one used w/135mm framelines hoping to encounter the matching lens at some point... never did.
Early-on, there was a 135mm lens offered with matching framelines in the viewfinder. Due to manufacturing tolerances, some body/135 lens sets had trouble with accurate focus. The UK distributor on their own set up a service for matching a customer's 135mm lens with their RF645 body, a good solution.
But Bronica had been bought by Tamron as I recall, and the corporate decision was to recall all RF645 bodies and 135mm lenses. The 135mm lenses were replaced with 100mm lenses, and the cameras were refitted with 100mm framelines. (Jim and I appear to have posted this tidbit about the same time!) The shorter focal length was better able to withstand existing manufacturing tolerances, it appears.
Not all cameras and lenses were returned for the recall campaign, so some of the originals are still out there in the used market. It may still be possible to get the viewfinder frameline mask changed...
Cameras manufactured after this focal length change have serial numbers starting with 11, while the original body serials began with 00. Of course bodies with 00 serial numbers are likely to have been refitted in recall, but not all.
BTW, there is no frameline in the viewfinder for the wide 45mm lens. Instead, this lens comes with an external finder. I found that the whole VF window was a reasonable approximation of the field of view, however. I've wondered... had the camera been originally designed for 100mm at the long end, if the VF magnification were a little lower this might have allowed proper parallax-corrected built-in 45mm framelines.
I bought a new RF645 in 2003 under a rebate program, with all three lenses (45, 65, 100). A much nicer camera all-round than my previous Fuji GS645S. And it reminded me a lot of my well-loved Minolta CLE. These are both all-time favorites.
Obviously I can't suggest that you will like the RF645 as much as I, but it's a wonderful camera. So much that I bought a second one used w/135mm framelines hoping to encounter the matching lens at some point... never did.
mfogiel
Mentor
Bronica RF has a couple of weak spots: delicate winding mechanism and the rangefinder precision. I have two bodies, and so far the winding works, although at times I get the impression that something is less than perfect in the gears. The rangefinder suffers from difficulty to align the double image, and if your eye is not dead centered it is easy to get misled. The best strategy is to align the border of the patch.
The best lens in use is the 65/4 although all lenses are consistently good. The 65/4 benefits from the best framing, and you should be able to focus correctly wide open down to the shortest distance (1m).
The best features are great ergonomics, compactness and ease of use overall, and the lenses, which on top of great sharpness and flare resistance, have the best shadow detail of any modern lens line I own.
MF20142520 by marek fogiel, on Flickr
The best lens in use is the 65/4 although all lenses are consistently good. The 65/4 benefits from the best framing, and you should be able to focus correctly wide open down to the shortest distance (1m).
The best features are great ergonomics, compactness and ease of use overall, and the lenses, which on top of great sharpness and flare resistance, have the best shadow detail of any modern lens line I own.
MF20142520 by marek fogiel, on Flickr
rhl-oregon
Cameras Guitars Wonders
The RF 645 is a very good tool, as long as you are not Conan the Barbarian with the advance lever, and if you prefer vertical framing--though turning it sideways for landscape is no peskier than doing the opposite on a 3:2 body.
I have the 65 and 45/VF, but mostly use the 65. Get the 45 only if you cannot live without 28mm.
Since I prefer to shoot without glasses, I wish there were a diopter, but I cope well enough with glasses--or without. Using RF means you can shoot half-blind. Don't shoot with polarized sunglasses on, though; the coated VF will effectively black out.
The back controls are simple and come to hand beautifully. Great grip. I treat mine well, and don't expect it to die before me.
Study Marek's RF645 images, and you'll get a sense of what it can do in capable hands.
I have the 65 and 45/VF, but mostly use the 65. Get the 45 only if you cannot live without 28mm.
Since I prefer to shoot without glasses, I wish there were a diopter, but I cope well enough with glasses--or without. Using RF means you can shoot half-blind. Don't shoot with polarized sunglasses on, though; the coated VF will effectively black out.
The back controls are simple and come to hand beautifully. Great grip. I treat mine well, and don't expect it to die before me.
Study Marek's RF645 images, and you'll get a sense of what it can do in capable hands.
CK Dexter Haven
Well-known
I've had the Mamiya 6 and the Bronica. I liked the Bronica's normal lens much more than the 75 on the Mamiya. The Bronica's bokeh is far nicer.
Build quality is probably better on the Mamiya, but the Bronica is quite nice. I really liked it. I would still have it, except for a repair problem that was never resolved. I bought one from KEH. Used it once, but then had to send it back to them to align the VF patch. It was 'off' vertically upon receipt, but i still got excellent results from it. But, after it came back from KEH, the batteries would drain when the camera was switched off. I sent it back again, and KEH had to send it to Tamron.... And, it was never seen again. After being away for nearly two months, and with no one able to give me a return estimate, i had to accept KEH's offer of a refund.
Build quality is probably better on the Mamiya, but the Bronica is quite nice. I really liked it. I would still have it, except for a repair problem that was never resolved. I bought one from KEH. Used it once, but then had to send it back to them to align the VF patch. It was 'off' vertically upon receipt, but i still got excellent results from it. But, after it came back from KEH, the batteries would drain when the camera was switched off. I sent it back again, and KEH had to send it to Tamron.... And, it was never seen again. After being away for nearly two months, and with no one able to give me a return estimate, i had to accept KEH's offer of a refund.
Bisakok
Established
If you wanted autofocus, and a small zoom range, the Fuji GA645zi will fit your budget. The Mamiyas (6 and 7) are excellent, but probably not cUS$500.
Ezzie
E. D. Russell Roberts
I too thought of gifting lyself an RF645 for my fiftieth. After considering it and quite a lot of alternatives I opted for a Fuji GA645Wi. The Bronica, and Mamiya 6/7's still command quite a lot of dosh, and reported winder reliabilty issues put me off. Especially since servicing is getting scarce. Though I must admit the Bronica still has an alluring effect on me every time I see it pictured.
The GA645 is similar in form factor, and general layout. But is even more automated and fixed lens. However the lenses (60/4 and 45/4) are stellar performers. And they have full manual controls if need be, even focusing (if a bit cumbersome to operate). It has a nice heft, fits my hand very well, and the finder is bright and big. I might consider getting the normal version too, as prices are about half of what an RF645 seems to fetch nowadays, and even less compared to the Mamiyas.
The GA645 is similar in form factor, and general layout. But is even more automated and fixed lens. However the lenses (60/4 and 45/4) are stellar performers. And they have full manual controls if need be, even focusing (if a bit cumbersome to operate). It has a nice heft, fits my hand very well, and the finder is bright and big. I might consider getting the normal version too, as prices are about half of what an RF645 seems to fetch nowadays, and even less compared to the Mamiyas.
Good point Ezzie about the Fuji GA645Wi... I have one too and it does very well, I like it. I tend to blow hot and cold over the AF, finding it a relief to go back to the RF645 to see exactly what it's focused on... and then later I'll enjoy the convenience of AF again, and try not to let it focus on the background. Sometimes I carried both at once, 65 on the Bronica, and the Fuji with its 45mm...
Sometimes I carried both at once, 65 on the Bronica, and the Fuji with its 45mm...
lxmike
M2 fan.
a big thank you to all of the above who have joined in so far and given their wise advice, I have a lot to ponder on...thank you