mfogiel
Mentor
I have been somewhat dissatisfied with the rendering and bokeh of the 28 Elmarit ASPH, so I have bought a 28/2.8 Biogon to compare these lenses. I have used a roll of Rollei ATP 1.1 25 ISO high resolution film and took several landscape shots on a tripod at f5.6 to see the typical application result. What I have seen so far, is that the Biogon is sharper in the center, has higher microcontrast and a slightly (but not much) higer overall contrast, while the Elmarit is quite a bit sharper in the corners.
This somewhat confirms that the Elmarit may be slightly preferable in the city, for its compact size and better rendering of architectural subjects, while the Biogon should excel for landscape and lower light rendering. I haven't had the time to clean the scans and post them, so for the moment you have to believe me by the word... anyway I have decided to keep both these lenses for the moment.
This somewhat confirms that the Elmarit may be slightly preferable in the city, for its compact size and better rendering of architectural subjects, while the Biogon should excel for landscape and lower light rendering. I haven't had the time to clean the scans and post them, so for the moment you have to believe me by the word... anyway I have decided to keep both these lenses for the moment.
kipkeston
Well-known
I would've expected the biogon to have lower contrast than the elmarit (as per the online reviews).
Tom A
RFF Sponsor
There are lenses that you try out and for some reason they don't appeal to you. It doesn't have to be that the lens is bad in any way, but it doesn't fit.
The 28f2.8 Asph for some reason falls into this category for me. I have tried several and they are sharp, nice contrast etc, but no. Too bad as it is an affordable Leica M lens! Choosing between them, I prefer the Zeiss 28f2.8 and/or the VC Ultron 28f2.0 any time. No rational reason, just a feeling.
Opposite to that you have those lenses that you like instantly! Sometimes it is ergonomics, sometimes it is how it renders the world on film. Those are the lenses you keep (and keep and keep!!). In my case it is some classics, like the DR Summicron, Summicron 35f2 III, my trusty Elmarit 28f2.8 III, Super Angulon 21f3.4. These are not necessarily the best optical choices, but I like the way they "draw".
Of the new crop from Leica - one contender is the 24mm f3.8 Asph. I had a chance to shoot with it at the LHSA meet in Louisville last month. Incredible performance - about as good as it gets! The 21f1.4 and 0.95/50mm are more "bragging" rights lenses, amazing optical feat - but at $7000 to $10 000. No thanks. At least the Elmar 24f3.8 is about as much as my car is worth!
The 28f2.8 Asph for some reason falls into this category for me. I have tried several and they are sharp, nice contrast etc, but no. Too bad as it is an affordable Leica M lens! Choosing between them, I prefer the Zeiss 28f2.8 and/or the VC Ultron 28f2.0 any time. No rational reason, just a feeling.
Opposite to that you have those lenses that you like instantly! Sometimes it is ergonomics, sometimes it is how it renders the world on film. Those are the lenses you keep (and keep and keep!!). In my case it is some classics, like the DR Summicron, Summicron 35f2 III, my trusty Elmarit 28f2.8 III, Super Angulon 21f3.4. These are not necessarily the best optical choices, but I like the way they "draw".
Of the new crop from Leica - one contender is the 24mm f3.8 Asph. I had a chance to shoot with it at the LHSA meet in Louisville last month. Incredible performance - about as good as it gets! The 21f1.4 and 0.95/50mm are more "bragging" rights lenses, amazing optical feat - but at $7000 to $10 000. No thanks. At least the Elmar 24f3.8 is about as much as my car is worth!
squirrel$$$bandit
Mentor
The thing I like best about the Biogon is the way it renders colors. To be honest, I have not yet encountered a modern lens that I don't find adequately sharp...sharpness isn't even a criteron for me anymore. They are all plenty sharp.
Steve Bellayr
Mentor
About a year ago I read a long article posted on the net comparing the three aforementioned lenses; elmarit, biogon, cv. The reviewer (This is his opinion and I only repeating it.) determined that the biogon at 28mm level out performed the elmarit and the elmarit out performed the cv lens. The out performance was very minor but the cost for the elmarit was much higher, obviously. The cv's performance was outstanding in his opinion but just shy of the other two. The benefit of the elmarit was in resale. I don own a Zeiss now thanks to Tom. The Zeiss line is a little larger & heavier but balances extremely well in use. The extra weight, which is really minor as compared to carrying a Nikon w/motor drive, is not noticed.
nightfly
Well-known
Just out of curiosity, how does the CV 28 3.5 compare to the Zeiss in terms of contrast and color rendering?
sepiareverb
genius and moron
I did a comparison of these two and found the ZM to be quite lacking in the corners, compared to the Elmarit ASPH. Even in landscape, the Elmarit gave much better looking detail across the whole image- small branches for example. My test was on FP4, and the difference was clear even in 810 prints.
tbarker13
shooter of stuff
I just bought a 28 elmarit asph ($1,100, using the live discount, and it included a leica uv/ir filter).
It is the only asph lens I own. Just wanted something small for travel and some landscape work. Thought about the Biogon, but for this particular use, size was important.
It is the only asph lens I own. Just wanted something small for travel and some landscape work. Thought about the Biogon, but for this particular use, size was important.
Dingo
Well-known
I am very satisfied with the performance of this little gem : 'Incredibily' sharp, very high contrast and saturated color rendering even wide open, and its compact size makes it the no. 1 choice for 'one camera one lens street work'. I used to shoot it intensively with Bessa R without ex. viewfinder.
The only drawback is the low speed, and not wide enough if using it on M8.
Turtle
Mentor
the 28 biogon is not suppoed to be as good in the corners as the 25, but it is still pretty decent. V sharp indeed on centre. I like mine!
palec
Well-known
If you check the Zeiss site and look at the datasheets, you see obvious difference in MTF charts between 25 and 28.
Some sources say that Elmarit 28 ASPH is designed for digital, because it's falling at the corners on full frame. I can say this is not true. It's very good wide open. It's digital standard because of it's size (replacement for 35 Summicron of film bodies).
But I found it's tonal distribution curve is problem for my workflow. It has lost me in shadows so I exchanged it for v4 Elmarit pre-asph which is about the size of Biogon. I cannot say yet if it was good choice, but I hope so.
TJV
Well-known
You think the little Elmarit is too contrasty, is that what you're saying? When I used mine on the M8 I was pretty taken back by the bite it has, which was in part due I think too it's high contrast nature. Since giving up the digital I have to admit I've not used it much as 28mm was never a favoured FOV for me, but I'm getting into it now. The times I have used it it's rendering is clearly more modern than the other lenses in my kit when the prints are viewed beside others. The Zeiss option sounds great but, buy popular account, the ZM 25mm is even better?
Dan States
Established
The Biogon is an outstanding lens for candid and general photography but if you are doing architecture you may find the corners a bit soft at distance. This seems to be due to a curved field of focus that moves back toward the photographer instead of the typical curve outward. You get REALLY sharp bottom corners in vertical shots, but it is a bit soft at infinity at the top of the same frame.
The Ultron 1.9 has a much flatter field, but also a bit lower contrast. In vignetting the Biogon falls somewhere between the Ultron (very little) and the Summicron (lots).
The Ultron 1.9 has a much flatter field, but also a bit lower contrast. In vignetting the Biogon falls somewhere between the Ultron (very little) and the Summicron (lots).
Tim Gray
Well-known
I know this wasn't really mentioned, but the Summicron is really great. As it should be for the price.
Ko.Fe.
Lenses 35/21 Gears 46/20
Old, good thread!
I sold Elmarit-M 28 III just because it was blocking VF too much...
Ultron 28 1.9 is in its own league lens (not as distinguishable and pleasing, IMO, as Elmarit-M III), but fast. Yet, it blocks VF too much again...
Elmarit-M 28 ASPH or Biogon 28 2.8. Which one is more, dare I ask, portrait lens?
Elmarit-M seems to have no fuzzy corners and next to distortions free.
I sold Elmarit-M 28 III just because it was blocking VF too much...
Ultron 28 1.9 is in its own league lens (not as distinguishable and pleasing, IMO, as Elmarit-M III), but fast. Yet, it blocks VF too much again...
Elmarit-M 28 ASPH or Biogon 28 2.8. Which one is more, dare I ask, portrait lens?
Elmarit-M seems to have no fuzzy corners and next to distortions free.
NeonKnight
Established
This thread reminded me of an interesting blog post on field curvature. Notice how differently these two lens perform in the test.
https://www.lensrentals.com/blog/2014/08/some-m-mount-field-curvatures/
https://www.lensrentals.com/blog/2014/08/some-m-mount-field-curvatures/
rfaspen
[insert pithy phrase here]
I have the vIV (4) version of the 28 Elmarit. I really like the lens and the images it gives...but I don't use it often. I seem to go 35 or 21 more often.
Anyway, finder blockage is very minimal, just the corner gets nipped. But, once you put the hood on *any* of these lenses you'll get some "interference" in the viewfinder
.I once tried the 28 Summicron. Awesome, awesome lens. I think the most recent version is even smaller than the small [previous] version I used. I don't remember any viewfinder blockage, but with the hood attached, I was looking through its cutout just like my good 'ol Elmarit.
Aren't the LTM Avenon 28 lenses really small? I've heard they have good image quality, but never held one myself. I seem to remember they're a little expensive.....but compared to a summicron? Maybe not so much.
Ko.Fe.
Lenses 35/21 Gears 46/20
I had Kobalux 28 3.5 LTM (same as Avenon). Small, not expensive, but crude (made) lens. Stiff focus (service no help) and focus scale in not exact agreement with RF.
And f3.5 lens is something I don't want on M-E.
M4-2, R2M entire VF field is enough for 28mm for me, but 28 1.9 takes a lot of space in VF. It is also visible and not just little in external VF on Zorki...
And f3.5 lens is something I don't want on M-E.
M4-2, R2M entire VF field is enough for 28mm for me, but 28 1.9 takes a lot of space in VF. It is also visible and not just little in external VF on Zorki...
rfaspen
[insert pithy phrase here]
Then the recent Elmarit ASPH and Summicron are your best bet. I remember Leica made small changes to each of these lenses about 1-2 years ago, but minor and they look about the same (but probably higher performance). They're all nice a small and compact, but more expensive than the v4 (pre-ASPH) Elmarit.
If you can look through the M4-2 with a v4 Elmarit attached, you might be willing to live with the small amount of blockage -- just the corner on my .72 Leicas and (such as M4-2) and a little more of the corner of the 28 frameline on the M240, which I think is a 0.69 finder. I'm pretty sure the ME is a 0.69 finder too.
For what its worth, I've also tried the v3 elmarit (e49 filter) on my M cameras and it was unacceptably huge. The lens makes great images, but I also didn't like the finder blockage with that lens. And the hood didn't help. And, it was just overall BIG. It stuck out pretty far and was unwieldy in handling. Its a trade off with that lens -- you have to really like the images to put up with the handling issues -- I guess many people do.
I would like an ASPH 28 Elmarit (or even better I'd like the Summicron), but couldn't justify the cost when I don't use the focal length very often. I stumbled on a very, very good deal for my v4 and I couldn't be happier. The lens is great and doesn't block the view anything like the previous Elmarits. Worth checking out if you can, but if you can't I would play it safe and pursue an Elmarit-ASPH. At least you know that won't block the finder at all...
If you can look through the M4-2 with a v4 Elmarit attached, you might be willing to live with the small amount of blockage -- just the corner on my .72 Leicas and (such as M4-2) and a little more of the corner of the 28 frameline on the M240, which I think is a 0.69 finder. I'm pretty sure the ME is a 0.69 finder too.
For what its worth, I've also tried the v3 elmarit (e49 filter) on my M cameras and it was unacceptably huge. The lens makes great images, but I also didn't like the finder blockage with that lens. And the hood didn't help. And, it was just overall BIG. It stuck out pretty far and was unwieldy in handling. Its a trade off with that lens -- you have to really like the images to put up with the handling issues -- I guess many people do.
I would like an ASPH 28 Elmarit (or even better I'd like the Summicron), but couldn't justify the cost when I don't use the focal length very often. I stumbled on a very, very good deal for my v4 and I couldn't be happier.
The lens is great and doesn't block the view anything like the previous Elmarits. Worth checking out if you can, but if you can't I would play it safe and pursue an Elmarit-ASPH. At least you know that won't block the finder at all...
agoglanian
Reconnected.
I’ve had a number of 28s (now I have zero) but from what I’ve experienced I can share some of my own findings / opinions
CV 28mm f/1.9 - Wonderful rendering, very usable, a bit large however
CV 28mm f/3.5 - Super sharp, high contrast & punchy lens, teeny-tiny, wonderful build quality. I loved it.
Zeiss 28mm f/2.8 - Really excellent in the center, less so in the corners, however the center draws you in to your frame. I think it’s perfect for street shooting.
Leica 28 Elmarit III - Huge for a 28, wonderful rendering characteristics, weak corners. I’ve got multiple prints from this lens and I loved the way it draws.
Leica 28 Elmarit Asph - Perfect size / handling ergonomics. Completely sharp across the frame, very little flaws (if any). I had it the least amount of time.
CV 28mm f/1.9 - Wonderful rendering, very usable, a bit large however
CV 28mm f/3.5 - Super sharp, high contrast & punchy lens, teeny-tiny, wonderful build quality. I loved it.
Zeiss 28mm f/2.8 - Really excellent in the center, less so in the corners, however the center draws you in to your frame. I think it’s perfect for street shooting.
Leica 28 Elmarit III - Huge for a 28, wonderful rendering characteristics, weak corners. I’ve got multiple prints from this lens and I loved the way it draws.
Leica 28 Elmarit Asph - Perfect size / handling ergonomics. Completely sharp across the frame, very little flaws (if any). I had it the least amount of time.