Zeiss Ikon preambles

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snaggs

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Not reviews, but heres a good article in shutterbug magazine on the Ikon, including photos of the plotter.

http://www.shutterbug.com/features/0405theevolution/index1.html

0405theevolutioni04.jpg
 
It's been posted that the latest issues of Japanese camera magazines all feature reports of the Zeiss Ikon. Here are some of the posted excerpts:

"The camera shares no parts with Bessa. It is totally new." (Stephen Gandy reported the same thing except he pointed out that they share the Copal shutter.)

"The rangefinder (viewfinder) is amazingly clear with T* equivalent coating. After you see through it, you feel Leica is now old."

"The film advance lever & shutter feel much smoother & quieter than those of Bessa but not rival those of Leica."(It probably has a film advance mechanism like the R2/3A which upgraded over the R2 by adding ball bearings, which makes it feel smoother)

"The 21mm & 25mm Biogons are outstandingly sharp & contrasty. They are undoubtedly top notch."

"Leica will know that this camera with Zeiss lenses is a threat to them." :p
 
Huck, are you on the payroll yet? :D

Perhaps not an insider, but you have the scoop, again.

Have you seen any word on the special introductory cameras? Any great promotion planned at this point for the camera's roll out?
 
Zeiss released a press release in german where they stated that with gigabit film, they achieved 320/line pairs with their new Ikon lenses. Thats 3 wave lengths of light.. you'll never see a result much better than that. Sure thats probably shooting test charts.. but still, the guys shooting their digital test shots dont mind using test charts to show the resolution for colour :)

What is also interesting, is that even though Cosina are making it, Zeiss are intending to challenge Leica head on. Its not intended to be a "value" camera, but rather the best. I wonder if they'll be making a new shutter to try and achieve this.

Daniel.
 
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snaggs said:
Zeiss released a press release in german where they stated that with gigabit film, they achieved 320/line pairs with their new Ikon lenses. Thats 3 wave lengths of light.. you'll never see a result much better than that. Sure thats probably shooting test charts.. but still, the guys shooting their digital test shots dont mind using test charts to show the resolution for colour :)

Daniel.
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That is more resolution than your eyes can see. You will never see these results, no need to mention better. ;)
 
rover said:
Huck, are you on the payroll yet? :D

Perhaps not an insider, but you have the scoop, again.

Have you seen any word on the special introductory cameras? Any great promotion planned at this point for the camera's roll out?
Click to expand...

Yes, Rover, I'm a plant. :p

I contacted Hasselblad via [email protected] during the winter about the limited editions & was told to contact Hasselblad-USA. I decided to wait on that until the spring. Idid contact Hasselblad-USA a couple of weeks ago & was told that they had many more registrations than they had limited edition cameras, so they would be sending a mailing to all those who had registered, informing them of the dealers who have the limited editions. It would then be up to each purchaser to contact one of these dealers on his/her own. They said to do so as soon as we receive the list because they anticipate heavy demand

Sorry, Buddy, no cocktail party. Now wining & dining. Well, I guess like all new products, there will be a lot of whining & they seem to be feeding us a lot of sales pitches, but that's it. ;)
 
snaggs said:
Zeiss released a press release in german where they stated that with gigabit film, they achieved 320/line pairs with their new Ikon lenses. Thats 3 wave lengths of light.. you'll never see a result much better than that. Sure thats probably shooting test charts.. but still, the guys shooting their digital test shots dont mind using test charts to show the resolution for colour :)

What is also interesting, is that even though Cosina are making it, Zeiss are intending to challenge Leica head on. Its not intended to be a "value" camera, but rather the best. I wonder if they'll be making a new shutter to try and achieve this.

Daniel.
Click to expand...

Daniel, I'm taking the Zeiss promotions with a grain of salt. Yes I believe that they achieved 320 or 400 lpm with 50 ISO gigabit film, but I don't think this will matter with my pictures - or anyone else's. Yes, I believe that they want this to be a premium featured camera. It is & I'm excited about it. But despite, their claim in Shutterbug of "spare no expense", it seems clear that this is built to a price point midway between the Bessa & Leicas. It also seems that the price is affected by their marketing strategy of involving 3 different companies in the project, so not all of the improved spec's are value added vs. a Bessa.The exorbitant prices for the auxiliary viewfinders & lens shades - higher even than Leica - also suggest that there is an added premium for the Zeiss name.

One example, the VC LH-5 vented lens shade, built for the VC 40/1.4 Nokton, fits the Zeiss 35/2 Biogon perfectly & sells for $45. However, the Zeiss lens shade for the 35 Biogon sells in USA for $127! Even in Hong Kong, it's selling for $79. The 2 look identical to me in pictures. I know that the Zeiss shade is spring loaded & I don't know if the CV shade is, but this doesn't make it worth 2 or 3 times the price.

Another example, the Zeiss auxiliary viewfinders cost $491. The only thing unique about them is frame lines for the extra close focusing of the Zeiss wide angle lenses & maybe T* coating. They're more than 3 times the cost of the excellent CV finders & about $100 more than Leica finders. They may be competing with Leica, but they're competing for who can charge the highest prices on the extras as well.

I don't see Zeiss coming out with a Leica-type shutter because this is an in-house production by Leica. Very expensive to produce. Something comparable would drive up the cost of the ZI & I think they're happy in their price niche. It's a big selling point for them. Besides, I think that the Leica shutter as a feature is way overblown. Pros shot with clunky SLR shutters for decades & got great pictures. It's rare in my experience that shutteer noise matters & when it does, even my Canonet isn't quiet enough - & it's quieter than a Leica. There are silent cameras on the market for those situations. Just my personal preference, like anyone else's.

I love the camera & there's no competition for its specs at that price but the Zeiss marketing has at times been over the top & there is some premium for the name brand.
 
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rover said:
That is more resolution than your eyes can see. You will never see these results.......... ;)
Click to expand...

ha,no reason at all to stop the stoneold endless discussion who makes the better lenses, Leica or the rest of the world ! Most of those who waste their time on forums and lists with arguing pro and contra haven't seen anything anyway ever on a photo and for those it must sound calming somehow that they will fight on a completely abstract battlefield soon, forever free now of the bothersome questions of practical perception. :D
All these nitpickers and lpmm - counters with the 250X loupes can reduce now the discussion to the central point , the "pride of ownwership" as one of them recenly said when I felt he could not win with facts..
And so I am looking forward to new bloody fights of outrageous cruelty on the Leica fFrum of photo.net , when the some of the hardliner Leica snobs will others get started on the "re-branded Cossies" , as they call the ZI lenses :D :D :D

Take care friends, idiots crossing !
Bertram
 
Just found the 25mm Biogons available in Hong Kong. The price is around US$ 900, not including lens shade & viewfinder.

Keven
 
Doug, Dr. Yao's prices pretty much reflect the Japanese retail prices, as listed on the Cosina website. The 25 finder is listed at about $370 on the Cosina site. Pretty close to Leica price for the same item.
 
Thanks... The 25 seems very attractive for some strange reason, but that matching viewfinder sure makes it a pricy choice. And at that price the Zeiss viewfinder HAS to be (had BETTER be) gloriously superior to the CV finder... NO barrel distortion...?!?!
 
Barrel distortion? LOL. Doug, I know next to nothing about what makes one auxiliary finder bette than another. The CV finders are constructed with 5 elements just like Zeiss & Leica. Some use plastic lenses, the better CV ones use glass & aren't much more expensive than the plastic ones. I can't see what would make these Zeiss or Leica finders worth 2.5 - 3 times the price of CV. If I were interested in the 25 mm lens, I'd buy it with the CV finder for $128.
 
I have a CV 35mm brightline finder - metal and glass and about $150. Can't see why I'd spend more on a 35mm finder as the quality is excellent.

The new ZI looks very nice, but I, myself, am happy with my ZI lenses from the 1950's.

Robert
 
Bertram2 said:
ha,no reason at all to stop the stoneold endless discussion who makes the better lenses, Leica or the rest of the world ! Most of those who waste their time on forums and lists with arguing pro and contra haven't seen anything anyway ever on a photo and for those it must sound calming somehow that they will fight on a completely abstract battlefield soon, forever free now of the bothersome questions of practical perception. :D
All these nitpickers and lpmm - counters with the 250X loupes can reduce now the discussion to the central point , the "pride of ownwership" as one of them recenly said when I felt he could not win with facts..
And so I am looking forward to new bloody fights of outrageous cruelty on the Leica fFrum of photo.net , when the some of the hardliner Leica snobs will others get started on the "re-branded Cossies" , as they call the ZI lenses :D :D :D

Take care friends, idiots crossing !
Bertram
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ROTFL!!! For me, the picture (i.e., what comes of the film) is the thing, and if the camera fulfills my needs (including how it feels to me in actual use), then I'll damned well buy it lpmm and CDFO opinion notwithstanding! Anyone who comes around looking for an argument better beware. As a person with a physical disability requiring me to walk with a crutch, I have invested in a crutch made of Titanium, and I have already slain 3 idiots with it and there's not a mark on the crutch! :p

Trius
 
Trius said:
, I have invested in a crutch made of Titanium, and I have already slain 3 idiots with it and there's not a mark on the crutch! :p
Trius
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Hmm, sounds promising! Unfortunately one cannot use such a wonderful tool at certain internet forums .......... :D :D :D
Regards,
Bertram
 
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