snaggs
Established
Was just reading up about the History of the Zeiss Ikon, and noted that most of the optical engineers from Zeiss actually ended up in the Soviet Union (Zeiss Jenna). Now I know from Astronomy that Zeiss Jenna continued making the worlds best eye-pieces and telescopes.
Did Zeiss Jenna keep making camera lenses? If so, what brand were they sold under.
Daniel.
Did Zeiss Jenna keep making camera lenses? If so, what brand were they sold under.
Daniel.
RObert Budding
D'oh!
Yes, Zeiss Jena made camera lenses. I have a Zeiss Jena 85/2.0 that fits my Contax IIIa rangefinder (vintage 1960). I believe there were others, too.
Robert
Robert
doubs43
Well-known
The establishment of East Germany as a separate country presented legal problems for the distribution of some goods because of Trademarks. The name "Carl Zeiss, Jena" couldn't be used on anything sold in the United States after 1966 because the courts ruled in favor of the West German Carl Zeiss company.
Legal agreements thus saw East German Zeiss products being sold in various parts of the world as "Carl Zeiss, Jena", "CZ, Jena" and "Aus Jena". Restrictions on the trademarks "Sonnar" and "Biogon" resulted in some lens being marked with an "S" or "B" to denote the optical formula used.
When the East German optical and camera companies were combined into the Pentacon conglomerate, it became difficult to know exactly which company made what at any given time.
IMO, East German optics are much better than generally recognized in the US because most photographers were enamoured with Japanese products which were of excellent quality. Often the E. German offerings simply couldn't match the Japanese counterparts in appearance or were ignored by consumers unaware that the E. German equipment was really pretty good. There's little question that the top quality Japanese cameras of the period are of better overall quality than the E. German cameras. However, it would be a mistake, IMO, to dismiss the E. German products out of hand as being "inferior". An Exakta VX-IIa of the 1960's in good working order is very much a quality camera in spite of it's idiosyncrasies. The Exakta RTL-1000 and Prakticas using the vertical metal focal-plane shutters are not highly regarded by many people but I think they're very capable. They don't have the heft or "feel" of quality that many Japanese cameras have but work well nevertheless. Used Prakticas sell for very little now and are one of the best buys on the market..... IMO.
Walker Smith
Legal agreements thus saw East German Zeiss products being sold in various parts of the world as "Carl Zeiss, Jena", "CZ, Jena" and "Aus Jena". Restrictions on the trademarks "Sonnar" and "Biogon" resulted in some lens being marked with an "S" or "B" to denote the optical formula used.
When the East German optical and camera companies were combined into the Pentacon conglomerate, it became difficult to know exactly which company made what at any given time.
IMO, East German optics are much better than generally recognized in the US because most photographers were enamoured with Japanese products which were of excellent quality. Often the E. German offerings simply couldn't match the Japanese counterparts in appearance or were ignored by consumers unaware that the E. German equipment was really pretty good. There's little question that the top quality Japanese cameras of the period are of better overall quality than the E. German cameras. However, it would be a mistake, IMO, to dismiss the E. German products out of hand as being "inferior". An Exakta VX-IIa of the 1960's in good working order is very much a quality camera in spite of it's idiosyncrasies. The Exakta RTL-1000 and Prakticas using the vertical metal focal-plane shutters are not highly regarded by many people but I think they're very capable. They don't have the heft or "feel" of quality that many Japanese cameras have but work well nevertheless. Used Prakticas sell for very little now and are one of the best buys on the market..... IMO.
Walker Smith
phototone
Well-known
Zeiss Jena was prohibited from using the Zeiss name in the Western world, due to the West German Zeiss holding the copyright to the name. So..they distributed in the West lenses under the name "aus Jena", and sometimes "CZ". All the excellent lenses for the Pentacon 6 medium format camera were east German Zeiss. There were Biogons, Sonnars, etc. They are very good, and were made late enough to be multicoated. I suspect some of the lenses made for the Pratica/Pentacon 35mm SLR's were east German Zeiss.
phototone
Well-known
Of course the manufacturing for the Zeiss lenses for the Contax RFDR was shipped to Kiev in the Ukraine, and there continued under the "Jupiter" name, therefore all the excellent Jupiter lenses in Kiev/Contax mount were in actuality pre-war Zeiss designs. Updated with coating.
This is why the West German Zeiss had to come out with a whole new internal design for the post-war Contax...as all the machine tooling, blueprints, etc. were shipped off to the Ukraine, as spoils of war.
This is why the West German Zeiss had to come out with a whole new internal design for the post-war Contax...as all the machine tooling, blueprints, etc. were shipped off to the Ukraine, as spoils of war.
doubs43
Well-known
phototone said:
The restrictions were not uniform throughout the Western nations. I personally own two pairs of "Carl Zeiss Jena" binoculars that I bought new from a well-known chain of stores in England. That was in the 1985/86 timeframe. England did not restrict the East German "Carl Zeiss Jena" trademark and it was used legally there.
Walker
Sonnar2
Well-known
A lot of "Carl Zeiss Jena" rangefinder lenses are faked Russian lenses. See here:
http://www.taunusreiter.de/Cameras/Zeiss_Fakes.html
This covers also a bit of East German Zeiss history. In mnay countries East German Carl Zeiss were allowed to use the Carl Zeiss name (IMHO, rightfully) - not in the US after some 1955's courts decision
They were making good lenses. Not very high specific or fast, but excellent "volume" designs - making the Jena optic products an important source of $$ for the GDR and giving 10,000 of people work until reunifying 1990 which was more or less a big loss for the Jena workers...
have fun, Frank
http://www.taunusreiter.de/Cameras/Zeiss_Fakes.html
This covers also a bit of East German Zeiss history. In mnay countries East German Carl Zeiss were allowed to use the Carl Zeiss name (IMHO, rightfully) - not in the US after some 1955's courts decision
They were making good lenses. Not very high specific or fast, but excellent "volume" designs - making the Jena optic products an important source of $$ for the GDR and giving 10,000 of people work until reunifying 1990 which was more or less a big loss for the Jena workers...
have fun, Frank
snaggs
Established
Where can you buy all these east german/soviet lenses? Is there a reputable online store?
W
wlewisiii
Guest
Sonnar2 said:
Interesting site that I hadn't seen before. Thank you for posting the link.
William
doubs43
Well-known
Among the better sellers are "cupog", "Alex-Photo" and "Grizzly33Bear". There are also those with website stores such as Oleg and Fedka. There are others whose names don't come readily to mind.snaggs said:
I suggest joining other lists that specialize in photographic gear from the FSU (Former Soviet Union) countries. The Russian Camera Forum on Beststuff.com is a good site and there are numerous sites devoted to the Exakta, Pentacons and Praktica cameras...... all from East Germany.
There's a lot of information out there and it will take some effort to find it. The search is half the fun. Good luck.
Walker
Seele
Anachronistic modernist
Sorry for coming in late.
To recap: the East German company Carl Zeiss Jena was not, as many was led to believe, a "fake" company bearing the name of Carl Zeiss to leech off the reputation of the name; it was the original company in the original factories where all the pre-WWII lenses were made. For that matter, the company name was "Carl Zeiss", as as per the custom of the time, the location of the company was also marked on the lens: in much the same way, the company who made the Leica lenses was not "Leitz Wetzlar" but "Leitz".
The US forces reached Jena first and according to the agreement reached at the Yalta conference, the US occupying forces would vacate for the Soviet forces to take over administration. Thus "Operation Paperclip" was put into action: several hundred Carl Zeiss personnels were "escorted" at gunpoint, along with a huge amount of material resources, to the area destined to be under US control, so that a new optical company could be established there. The Carl Zeiss company name was registered in a hurry, and so was the Carl Zeiss Foundation.
Meanwhile, the company in Jena was pretty much left in the cold but it still tried its best to get back into business, but as the original Carl Zeiss Stiftung re-registerred with the authorities a matter of days later than the new one in the west, it lost its legitimacy as seen in many overseas countries. In much the same way, Carl Zeiss Jena did that too, for not having the rights to the name it had been using since the latter days of the 19th century.
While East Germany manufactured cameras of many types. the original Zeiss Ikon company in Dresden took little time to shift from rangefinder cameras to single-lens reflex cameras, although for a number of years afterwards, Carl Zeiss Jena still produced lenses for the West German-made Contax IIa and IIIa cameras. But Carl Zess Jena had to satisfy the demans of domestic manufacturers of cameras and other markets too, so apart from specialist photographic optics (such as the Apo-Germinar process lenses), the photographic lenses it produces were for reflex cameras, made by Exakta and KW (which later became Pentacon).
Consider the two brands 35mm single-lens reflex cameras, Carl Zeiss Jena was one of the two main supplier of lenses to them, the other being Hugo Meyer. With the exception of some short-lived detours such as Praktina and Pentina, a staggering quantity of lenses were made in Exakta, Praktica M42 screw and Praktica B mounts; the B-mount ones were of course the last made and many of completely new designs. Using a M42-mount 35mm single-lens reflex would be a good way to access these Carl Zeiss lenses (along with the many fine Meyer ones too).
But back to the CRF topic: Carl Zeiss Jena, after the way, did produce a series of 35mm compact cameras called the Werra, of various specifications; the top model, thte Werramatic, featured exposure meter, coupled rangefinder, and three interchangeable lenses: 35mm Flektogon, 50mm Tessar and 100mm Cardinar, all very fine performers, and with a Prestor leaf shutter with rotating blades which could give a marked top speed of 1/750s (although it can indeed run at 1/1000s with ease.
To recap: the East German company Carl Zeiss Jena was not, as many was led to believe, a "fake" company bearing the name of Carl Zeiss to leech off the reputation of the name; it was the original company in the original factories where all the pre-WWII lenses were made. For that matter, the company name was "Carl Zeiss", as as per the custom of the time, the location of the company was also marked on the lens: in much the same way, the company who made the Leica lenses was not "Leitz Wetzlar" but "Leitz".
The US forces reached Jena first and according to the agreement reached at the Yalta conference, the US occupying forces would vacate for the Soviet forces to take over administration. Thus "Operation Paperclip" was put into action: several hundred Carl Zeiss personnels were "escorted" at gunpoint, along with a huge amount of material resources, to the area destined to be under US control, so that a new optical company could be established there. The Carl Zeiss company name was registered in a hurry, and so was the Carl Zeiss Foundation.
Meanwhile, the company in Jena was pretty much left in the cold but it still tried its best to get back into business, but as the original Carl Zeiss Stiftung re-registerred with the authorities a matter of days later than the new one in the west, it lost its legitimacy as seen in many overseas countries. In much the same way, Carl Zeiss Jena did that too, for not having the rights to the name it had been using since the latter days of the 19th century.
While East Germany manufactured cameras of many types. the original Zeiss Ikon company in Dresden took little time to shift from rangefinder cameras to single-lens reflex cameras, although for a number of years afterwards, Carl Zeiss Jena still produced lenses for the West German-made Contax IIa and IIIa cameras. But Carl Zess Jena had to satisfy the demans of domestic manufacturers of cameras and other markets too, so apart from specialist photographic optics (such as the Apo-Germinar process lenses), the photographic lenses it produces were for reflex cameras, made by Exakta and KW (which later became Pentacon).
Consider the two brands 35mm single-lens reflex cameras, Carl Zeiss Jena was one of the two main supplier of lenses to them, the other being Hugo Meyer. With the exception of some short-lived detours such as Praktina and Pentina, a staggering quantity of lenses were made in Exakta, Praktica M42 screw and Praktica B mounts; the B-mount ones were of course the last made and many of completely new designs. Using a M42-mount 35mm single-lens reflex would be a good way to access these Carl Zeiss lenses (along with the many fine Meyer ones too).
But back to the CRF topic: Carl Zeiss Jena, after the way, did produce a series of 35mm compact cameras called the Werra, of various specifications; the top model, thte Werramatic, featured exposure meter, coupled rangefinder, and three interchangeable lenses: 35mm Flektogon, 50mm Tessar and 100mm Cardinar, all very fine performers, and with a Prestor leaf shutter with rotating blades which could give a marked top speed of 1/750s (although it can indeed run at 1/1000s with ease.