LGibs_
Member
Hello all. I recently purchased a Zorki 4 on ebay after several weeks of research and deliberation. This is my first film camera ever. I shot 3 rolls of film on this camera with little to no issues, besides the general learning curve of learning how to use it properly. However, the scans of my fourth roll of film showed a black void on the left side of many of the images. Further investigation revealed one photo from the third roll exhibited this to a very slight degree. Attached is one of the worst examples of this.
I contacted the eBay seller about this, and he suggested two possible causes:
1. The 1/1000 shutter speed is causing shutter lag, which is a common problem.
2. I did not entirely wind the film in between shots, causing shutter lag.
I do not believe the first reason is responsible because I have only used the 1/1000 speed several times. While I did not record the camera settings for each photo, I know that this cannot be the cause for the vast majority of my photos.
I have already gone to r/AnalogCommunity about my issue and they suggested that reason 2 would create a sharper void versus the hazy one in my photos. However, I received 36 photos not counting the 3 initial “wasted” shots during loading on a roll of 36 exposures. I am confused because I did not experience any double exposures, although I evidently made some errors in camera winding.
There is a 90 day warranty (active for one more month) for my camera according to the original eBay listing, but I do not want to invoke this if I can avoid it. I am currently working on a fifth roll and plan on taking a test shot on each shutter speed to help diagnose the issue.
Does anyone have any advice on this issue? Was it caused by improper winding? Should I just return the camera and get my money back?
I contacted the eBay seller about this, and he suggested two possible causes:
1. The 1/1000 shutter speed is causing shutter lag, which is a common problem.
2. I did not entirely wind the film in between shots, causing shutter lag.
I do not believe the first reason is responsible because I have only used the 1/1000 speed several times. While I did not record the camera settings for each photo, I know that this cannot be the cause for the vast majority of my photos.
I have already gone to r/AnalogCommunity about my issue and they suggested that reason 2 would create a sharper void versus the hazy one in my photos. However, I received 36 photos not counting the 3 initial “wasted” shots during loading on a roll of 36 exposures. I am confused because I did not experience any double exposures, although I evidently made some errors in camera winding.
There is a 90 day warranty (active for one more month) for my camera according to the original eBay listing, but I do not want to invoke this if I can avoid it. I am currently working on a fifth roll and plan on taking a test shot on each shutter speed to help diagnose the issue.
Does anyone have any advice on this issue? Was it caused by improper winding? Should I just return the camera and get my money back?
Attachments
Coldkennels
Barnack-toting Brit.
I was about to say that I would generally expect shutter lag to be on the other side of the image; for the left side of the photo to be dark, the first shutter has to be moving slow at the start of its travel, and I find shutter tapering usually happens when it slows down at the other end:
(This was from a Leica If that went back to the dealer after three rolls last summer)
But having checked through some old scans, I noticed my Zorki 5 once showed a very extreme example of shutter lag on the other side of the image, so it's not impossible:
That said, having dragged my Zorki 4 off the shelf, I do notice a certain amount of "whiplash" when winding on; when you let go of the winding knob, the shutter moves back in the direction it came slightly. If yours is worn, it could be doing this enough for the shutter curtain to be starting within the frame. Have a look with the back of the camera removed and see if you can see the "blade" at the end of the first curtain after winding on.
Personally, either way, I'd send it back. I think the Zorki 4 is the worst of all the Zorkis any way, and you'll be spending more on repairing it than it's worth. See if you can get a 5 or 6 instead (depending on if you're okay with bottom loading or prefer an SLR-style swing back); they're smaller, easier to carry (why do so many Zorki 4s not have strap lugs?!), and generally a lot more reliable.
(This was from a Leica If that went back to the dealer after three rolls last summer)
But having checked through some old scans, I noticed my Zorki 5 once showed a very extreme example of shutter lag on the other side of the image, so it's not impossible:
That said, having dragged my Zorki 4 off the shelf, I do notice a certain amount of "whiplash" when winding on; when you let go of the winding knob, the shutter moves back in the direction it came slightly. If yours is worn, it could be doing this enough for the shutter curtain to be starting within the frame. Have a look with the back of the camera removed and see if you can see the "blade" at the end of the first curtain after winding on.
Personally, either way, I'd send it back. I think the Zorki 4 is the worst of all the Zorkis any way, and you'll be spending more on repairing it than it's worth. See if you can get a 5 or 6 instead (depending on if you're okay with bottom loading or prefer an SLR-style swing back); they're smaller, easier to carry (why do so many Zorki 4s not have strap lugs?!), and generally a lot more reliable.
Ko.Fe.
Lenses 35/21 Gears 46/20
Rewind has nothing to do with it. Get money back. Looks like slow speed mechanism issue (those are terrible design comparing to Leica style).
The only way to get working FSU is from one who used it recently (like week ago). Ebay, Oleg and else - trouble.
The only way to get working FSU is from one who used it recently (like week ago). Ebay, Oleg and else - trouble.
Coldkennels
Barnack-toting Brit.
I don't think that's fair. As a general rule, the FED 2, Zorki 5 and Zorki 6 are pretty solid machines.
You are right in that any "LTM" camera from the former Soviet Union with a slow speed mechanism is bound to be trouble, though.
santino
FSU gear head
And I think the Zorki 4 is a pretty solid machine. It has all shutter speed one could wish and a fine viewfinder. I‘ve had several and none of them has problems.
Ko.Fe.
Lenses 35/21 Gears 46/20
Doesn't sound you used any FSU for couple of decades just because nothing else was available and left it as soon as something else became available. But tens of millions did.
Any FSU is 20 - 50+ YO now. Most needs not just slight CLA, but entire shuttle disassembly to remove gunk from curtains rollers springs.
Nobody who sells on ebay does it. Oleg is no difference. He has send me not CLA'd FED-2 twice.
As for "solid", yep, solid as manure of same vintage. Why nobody service those on the West? Because anything after FED-2 is showing what USSR manufacturing was.
Don't know what your experience is, but I serviced several FED-2, Zorki and else. Including changing of curtains. Not worth it. Crude and stupidly made comparing to old made in Japan LTM, which cost not so much different, but made as good as Leica.
Haven't had anything to do with Zorkis, and I have no plans to alter that, but I do know a little about focal plane shutters. That's not curtain tapering in the conventional sense. Wrong side of the gate. I can't offer much in the way of suggestions. You might make a series of exposures with even background across the whole negative. A plain wall will do, if it is evenly lit. Or a blue sky. Your image certainly reveals a problem. But in order to get a really good idea of how well a set of curtains are running across a whole film gate, (and spot problems such as curtain bounce or tapering exposure) it helps if foliage or other objects in a scene are absent from at least a part of the long dimension of a (horizontally running) shutter negative. Yes, keep notes of which shutter speeds have been used for each individual image. A series from 1/1000 down to 1/30 or whatever speed the Zorki has in that region may reveal more.
Otherwise you are going to have to wait until you've knocked off the roll. The 4 has a conventional opening back? If so, that's a plus. You may well be able to visually detect irregularities in the starting point of the curtains through the gate, with the back open and lens off, pointed at suitable light sources. An evenly lit white wall can sometimes be useful for this in addition to the usual "point the gate at a bright light" technique.
The suggestion that perhaps the curtains have not always been fully wound is one which might fit the symptoms. If the laths have not fully cleared the right end of the gate when the shutter is fired, you might get precisely the effect your image manifests. Once again, if it can occur depending on the speed set and/or how the shutter is tensioned, you'll have a better chance of determining this when you can actually look through the film gate, as you cycle the shutter.
I suspect it is unlikely, nevertheless, it's always a good idea to closely inspect the inside of the gate and through the lens opening, for any signs of film chips or other debris that might be interfering with proper actuation of the curtains. Probably a long shot in this instance, but mentioned in the interests of being thorough.
Cheers
Brett
farlymac
PF McFarland
I've got a Zorki-1e that does that every once in a while, and I suspect it's due to a film chip. The reason I suspect that is because when I first used the camera there were shadows of film bits on the negatives that disappeared, and the first curtain issues then started to crop up. I haven't bothered with opening it up yet as it's quite intermittent, and I don't use the camera much.
PF
PF
pvdhaar
Peter
Not sure if it's true, or just follkore, but it's sometimes said that you should first change the shutter speed, and then advance instead of the other way around. The reason being that first advancing and then changing shutter speed might affect the tension on the shutter mechanism.
farlymac
PF McFarland
Setting the shutter speed second will not change the tension as the shutter is fully cocked, and the setting dial only controls when the curtains are released. On FSU gear it is always advisable to wind the film first, then change the shutter speed. Seeing as the OP's camera is pretty old and has likely had minimal if any servicing it is far better to send it off for a CLA. All these cameras are suspect at best considering their origins, probably not used in many years. Dried lubricants, film chips, bent bottom plates, there are any number of things that can be wrong with them, and despite the glowing descriptions given by the sellers they cannot be trusted to work as say a similar aged Leica would.
The saying that when you buy a used Leica you should always factor in the cost of a CLA goes quadruple for an FSU camera as they were not built to last over 50 years. Unless you know for certain the camera has been serviced recently by a respected shop every buyer of FSU gear needs to adhere to the "Buyer Beware" philosophy. The OP can always send the camera back for a refund or bite the bullet and get it worked on. Only two choices. FSU cameras are not bad cameras, they are just getting very old and need some TLC. And he will continue to run into the same issues no matter how many times he tries to get a decent working one. It happens to us all. Either join the crowd or switch to a different brand of camera.
PF
LGibs_
Member
Thank you for all of your responses! I would like to note that this camera was advertised as CLA'd and the seller seemed to be very credible. However, I am now thinking that I will just send it back. I finished the roll of film I had inside of it and ended up taking nearly 40 exposures (39.5, which makes me even more confused). I was very careful to wind the film entirely this time so I am not sure what is going wrong. I took test shots of some snow on the ground so hopefully in a few days I will receive some illuminating scans.
Who is Oleg? I am not familiar with many FSU camera sellers besides Yuri on Fedka, but I have seen Oleg mentioned on several threads here.
Thanks again,
Liam
Who is Oleg? I am not familiar with many FSU camera sellers besides Yuri on Fedka, but I have seen Oleg mentioned on several threads here.
Thanks again,
Liam
santino
FSU gear head
Ko.Fe.
Lenses 35/21 Gears 46/20
The FSU market is wide, but scarce at same time.
FSU territory is large and each camera model was made in hundreds of thousands and often in millions.
It means anyone who could get them dirt cheap in FSU and have access to shipping/payment could sell.
Now ebay. Its current state is scam driven worldwide. eBay doesn't have human customer service anymore, it is all done by flaky AI. Even their payment system is dirt cheap and flawed now with typical scam overtaken business registration in Amsterdam. I have ordered FSU cameras from Moscow based sellers with thousands of positive reviews. Sold as working camera - DOA. I have no idea how those thugs are getting positive reviews in thousands. I know one person who was repairing FSU for internal FSU market. He told me about those scammers on ebay. Most of them approached him to find out if he could do cosmetic touches for low price for those cameras to be put on sale on eBay as CLA'd.
As I mentioned before, any FSU camera manufacturing quality is directly worse the "younger" camera is.
It is so bad, nobody from reputable camera repair services is willing to touch it. You will disassemble it, but parts and design are so bad, it is time consuming machoism to make it work, assemble after.
So, all, I repeat ALL statements on ebay about CLA from mass seller of FSU is 100% lie.
Oleg was benefiting from his distance location even for Russia. Low living cost, paid much more for his CLA in $, comparing to local pricing in RUB.
But few years ago something went wrong with him. He started to sell just as they do on eBay. CLA claimed, but cameras arrived not working properly and not CLA'd. I got one camera like this, have to pay for shipping to send his junk back to him, he send me another junk as replacement.
The safest bet to enter into FSU RF is still and only Zorki.
Get one on ebay as working. Get rebate from scammer who sold it as working after it is DOA.
Get curtains material from ebay seller in Japan. Low cost, good quality.
Find Zorki survival guide in Fedka Jay and completely re-haul Zorki by DIY.
I did it couple of times with success. No special tools are needed just some old fashion shoe glue mentioned on same side. I-22 lenses are easy to work on.
To collimate lens and camera RF, I used self made ground glass, but even milky on one side plastic will do.
Or, as I mentioned, buy FSU from its current and very recent user, not any reseller or one who was keeping it unused for few months (years).
LGibs_
Member
I see, thanks for the info guys!