RealXenuis
Officious Intermeddler
I disagree. It's more expensive than some better performing AF cameras, sure. I find the IQ, handling, lens quality, etc etc, to make it more than worth the price. My experience (I own the 35 and the 18, not exp with the 60 but it's on the way). I do agree that the AF is a weakness, in that it could be both faster and consistent. It's not confusing to us that understood what we were getting and why??
CopperB
M3 Noob
As an FYI - the Canon 5D was about $3300 for the body only - I can honestly say the AF system was no better on that body.
Not trying to "justify" Fuji's lack of a really good AF system (to be honest, I wish all cameras had the AF system of Nikon.. they seem to have nailed it) but my comment re: 5D is more to compare the fact that there are cameras that can and do cost a lot more which have equally "craptacular" AF systems
Cheers,
Dave
That's sad. Maybe you should switch to Nikon
. AF in low light is always a huge challenge but I've had better performance in club lighting with my D50 and D90 in past years but their hi ISO performance can't touch the xpro1. Don't get me wrong, I really like this camera in many many ways. I just wish that low light focusing was more reliable and I could leave the dSLR at home.
dcsang
Canadian & Not A Dentist
That's sad. Maybe you should switch to Nikon
I already did switch to Nikon... 3 years ago - with the D700s I own. That's how I know how good and bad AF accuracy can be; even among the big players who "know" what they're doing in the game
Cheers,
Dave
CopperB
M3 Noob
Even prefocus would be tough at very shallow DOF when band members are moving around a lot. It would be great for performers who are more static onstage. Norah Jones, Ray LaMontagne, Jann Arden and Sarah McLachlan come to mind. Bands, not so much.
N
Nikon Bob
Guest
I already did switch to Nikon... 3 years ago - with the D700s I own. That's how I know how good and bad AF accuracy can be; even among the big players who "know" what they're doing in the game
Cheers,
Dave
If you are saying that the AF in a D700 can miss focus in dim light, I'll vouch for that. No AF system I have tried is perfect 100% of the time. On a lot of occasions the fault was mine for not having selected the correct AF configuration. It takes time to get to know a particular camera's AF system and have it properly set for the shooting conditions you are in.
Bob
furcafe
Mentor
OK, never mind, then.
Even the D700's vaunted AF has failed to impress me in low-light environments (& even Canonphiles acknowledge the shortcomings of the 5D, Marks I & II), all of which really makes me wish Leica would just get on w/it & put a good modern sensor in the M10.
Even the D700's vaunted AF has failed to impress me in low-light environments (& even Canonphiles acknowledge the shortcomings of the 5D, Marks I & II), all of which really makes me wish Leica would just get on w/it & put a good modern sensor in the M10.
dreilly
Chillin' in Geneva
How much does a camera body have to cost to actually work well out of the box? I mean, would it cost two grand a body to work for both Norah Jones AND Anti-flag?
(I know some of you find it working quite well for how you shoot. Good for you. But if Fuji techs are telling people that the "AF issue" will be fixed in future firmware upgrades, then the company is admitting they have released a horse from the starting gate that is simply not fit to race. Now Fuji corporate has to stand behind their tech and admit their charade, or say that the guy misspoke, and try to convince people like the OP that there's no problem at all. Tough position. That they stepped right into.)
(I know some of you find it working quite well for how you shoot. Good for you. But if Fuji techs are telling people that the "AF issue" will be fixed in future firmware upgrades, then the company is admitting they have released a horse from the starting gate that is simply not fit to race. Now Fuji corporate has to stand behind their tech and admit their charade, or say that the guy misspoke, and try to convince people like the OP that there's no problem at all. Tough position. That they stepped right into.)
dreilly
Chillin' in Geneva
I found my D700 was excellent in low light. Perfect? No! But scary good. Just because you can find limitations in that system, doesn't mean that the camera that costs almost as much (X-1) isn't far far behind it.
celluloidprop
Well-known
We don't know that, necessarily. The XP1 already has the benefit of the X100's year of firmware development. The X100 can also have AF optimized for a single, light lens.
celluloidprop
Well-known
re: AF vs SLRs, I've never had a SLR with a fast prime that was legitimately slow to focus in low light from near to far using single point middle and recomposing. Not saying it was always dead on in accuracy, but everything from the Elan 7e to 5D to the D700 to my new 645N has been fast.
furcafe
Mentor
Well, ideally the body would be free. I think people just have different expectations/definitions of "good" or acceptable AF. And as the OP or anyone who shoots shows knows, dark performance venues just happen to be 1 of the most demanding environments for autofocus. Per willie_901's post, anyone expecting the AF on these little cameras to perform the same as the AF on a big dSLR is fooling themselves. Size matters because accurate AF requires processing power, which requires space. I haven't been keeping up w/what Fuji has been saying about this, but shame on them if they actually led people to believe that the X-Pro1's AF would be as fast & accurate as a D700.
I think people just have different expectations/definitions of "good" or acceptable AF. And as the OP or anyone who shoots shows knows, dark performance venues just happen to be 1 of the most demanding environments for autofocus. Per willie_901's post, anyone expecting the AF on these little cameras to perform the same as the AF on a big dSLR is fooling themselves. Size matters because accurate AF requires processing power, which requires space. I haven't been keeping up w/what Fuji has been saying about this, but shame on them if they actually led people to believe that the X-Pro1's AF would be as fast & accurate as a D700.
Godfrey
somewhat colored
manual focus is the only way i've ever shot in conditions like that. more accurate, faster, etc. i only use AF with any camera for good light, happy snap conditions.
Shade
Well-known
Great shots but I do agree with you regarding its focusing issues. I would hope Fuji would address this in the firmware upgrade.
RealXenuis
Officious Intermeddler
I'm not sure that having slower AF than a lot of cameras some people prefer means it's not "working quite well out of the box". There seems to be a lot more people who don't own the camera complaining that it's not a good camera than those who do. I wouldn't mind the focusing being the best of any camera ever made by human hands. I'd also like it to be a lot faster than it is now. But I can't say I've missed a shot with it. I do think that the motor/lens combo is slower than I'm used to nowadays. But I'd also not expect faster in low light (nor more accurate and decisive) and I'm not missing shots. That doesn't mean you shouldn't, but there are really not a lot of cameras around that handle that well, and I don't believe I've read anything from Fuji claiming as such.
jippiejee
Well-known
It's funny to observe how criticizing anything Fuji (and look at that price tag) gets so many so defensive of the products, that at best can be called beta. When something that just launched already gets posts about hoped-for firmware updates, there's something not totally right. But it's swearing in church to call it by its name. But the truth is this is an AF camera that doesn't do AF very well. Nor MF. For more than €2000 euro.
gyuribacsi
Established
I have tested this camera in a shop like the OP did. No chance to get a shot in focus. I´m pretty disappointed because I was to buy it for night shots in clubs and bars where my friends playing music. So I´ll do my "quick and dirty" bar shots with a Leica M3 or a CLE in the future too. Metering the scene first, usually 1/8 sec. with f 4 and HP5, and klick it away.
George
George
JHutchins
Well-known
Last night's Fuji adventure here was trying to photograph dancing. I found it fine for slower dances, not at all fine for lively ones. The only other autofocus system I've used to any extent, though, is a Contax G2 so I really haven't anything to make meaningful comparisons to. For me it's just "not fine" relative to some aspirational system that may or may not exist. It's faster than manual focus but that says little.
It was initially more frustrating since with manual focus you focus & the focus point stays put. With the Fuji it was refocusing every time. My solution: put it in manual focus mode & adjust to using the AF-L button to focus rather than the shutter button. I found that a more useable system. It's possible the time to focus lock is a bit longer that way but I see no reason it should be true and it may be my imagination.
It was initially more frustrating since with manual focus you focus & the focus point stays put. With the Fuji it was refocusing every time. My solution: put it in manual focus mode & adjust to using the AF-L button to focus rather than the shutter button. I found that a more useable system. It's possible the time to focus lock is a bit longer that way but I see no reason it should be true and it may be my imagination.
furcafe
Mentor
I didn't know you could focus using the AE-L/AF-L button, & definitely not in M(anual?) mode! There's nothing in the instruction manual about this feature (maybe it was lost in translation from the Japanese). Thanks for the discovery.
I was just complaining to a mutual friend how when the camera is set for S (& I think C) mode AF, pressing the AE-L/AF-L button (even when it's set for AF or AF + AE lock) doesn't actually focus the camera, you still have to 1/2-press the shutter release 1st & simultaneously push the AE-L/AF-L button to lock focus. Most inconvenient & counterintuitive compared to the G2 or any dSLR. Using this "autofocus while in ostensibly manual focus mode" method seems the most G2-like solution, though it does appear to be noticeably slower in focusing.
P.S., welcome to RFF.
I was just complaining to a mutual friend how when the camera is set for S (& I think C) mode AF, pressing the AE-L/AF-L button (even when it's set for AF or AF + AE lock) doesn't actually focus the camera, you still have to 1/2-press the shutter release 1st & simultaneously push the AE-L/AF-L button to lock focus. Most inconvenient & counterintuitive compared to the G2 or any dSLR. Using this "autofocus while in ostensibly manual focus mode" method seems the most G2-like solution, though it does appear to be noticeably slower in focusing.
P.S., welcome to RFF.
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dreilly
Chillin' in Geneva
On people complaining about a camera they don't own: for months and months there have been threads littering RFF about a non-RF camera that was greeted as the second coming of Barnack by a bunch of people that had never touched or seen the brick itself. At one apex of the hype, someone even seriously wrote to the effect that "we don't know it doesn't have a mechanical rangefinder". How's that different than the current outcry? Well, now we have actual reports of performance limitations and a tacit admission by Fuji that all is not golden.
If someone wants to give me an X-1 Pro I'd be happy to test it out. I'm sure I would find it charming, like my X100. But until then, the religious overblown hype and the irrational defense of a not-fully-baked product whose AF won't allow the photog to take advantage of its great high ISO potential in critical situations will keep my dollars right where they are (owed to my credit card for other camera purchases, natch!)
If someone wants to give me an X-1 Pro I'd be happy to test it out. I'm sure I would find it charming, like my X100. But until then, the religious overblown hype and the irrational defense of a not-fully-baked product whose AF won't allow the photog to take advantage of its great high ISO potential in critical situations will keep my dollars right where they are (owed to my credit card for other camera purchases, natch!)