semilog
curmudgeonly optimist
That is abject nonsense.
The number of people killed by terrorism is not negligible, but if we compare the deaths caused by terrorism to dysentery (an apt comparison, actually), or influenza, or cancer, or heart disease, or malaria, or tuberculosis, or car accidents.... or -- for that matter -- to lightning strikes, we get a lower number. (For lightning strikes the numbers might be about the same. For all the others, terrorism pales into insignificance to such an extent that it's not even relevant, from a statistical standpoint).
In any case, preventing photography on the subway will do precisely as much to prevent terrorism as preventing photography on golf courses will do to prevent lighting.
Limitations on photography do not reflect sensible caution: they are in fact authoritarian intimidation in the guise of plain stupidity. The main thing that we have to fear is not terrorism. It is fear-mongering. The "cure" does as much damage as the disease and, arguably, more damage.
Anyone in the United States who might take a photograph in public should have one of these in the wallet and the camera bag.
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semilog
curmudgeonly optimist
Spot-on, that. Note, too, that the "prohibitions" are usually imaginary, with no basis in law or regulation.
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ElectroWNED
Well-known
I'm glad I didn't know that the police need a court order to confiscate memory cards or film. I would have refused the officer's demands for me to delete the photos of him!
swoop
Well-known
I had to photograph JFK airports terminal 3 yesterday and the pics were horrible because airport security kept telling me what I could and couldn't do. But if you look on the internet there are tons of photos of the place inside and out.
I don't get why they have these restrictions. You get more if you're sneaky about it than if you're upfront.
I don't get why they have these restrictions. You get more if you're sneaky about it than if you're upfront.
semilog
curmudgeonly optimist
wolves3012
Mentor
One thing that annoys me seriously in the UK is that anyone can ever be told not to photograph, anywhere, when we're overrun with CCTV cameras. One rule for the public, another for shopkeepers/police/etc who are at liberty to record our every move in the name of "public safety and security".
Go snooping around a military installation with a camera and you're asking for trouble and deserve it, beyond that I'd say almost anything public is fair game.
Go snooping around a military installation with a camera and you're asking for trouble and deserve it, beyond that I'd say almost anything public is fair game.
kuzano
Mentor
On the one hand....
On the one hand....
On the one hand,
You're lucky it wasn't the policeman who punched the lady in Seattle on Wednesday...
On the other hand, I saw the video and the policeman did exactly the right thing. She was way out of line and could have prodded the crowd into a frenzy in which someone could have gotten hurt far more badly. She went after the officer with a vengeance and there was no time or way to tell what her next move might be to endanger someone in the situation. He defused the situation WITHOUT A WEAPON OR A TAZER... an all too common solution these days.
The shock of seeing his fist connect with her nose probably stunned the crowd into non-action. It certainly surprised me.
On the one hand....
On the one hand,
You're lucky it wasn't the policeman who punched the lady in Seattle on Wednesday...
On the other hand, I saw the video and the policeman did exactly the right thing. She was way out of line and could have prodded the crowd into a frenzy in which someone could have gotten hurt far more badly. She went after the officer with a vengeance and there was no time or way to tell what her next move might be to endanger someone in the situation. He defused the situation WITHOUT A WEAPON OR A TAZER... an all too common solution these days.
The shock of seeing his fist connect with her nose probably stunned the crowd into non-action. It certainly surprised me.
peterm1
Mentor
Get used to it is what I say. If its just some everyday person on the street I usually just tell them (usually politely) to mind their own business or pretent I "No speaka da Englis" . (I did try telling one guy I was a tourist but I think he thought I meant I was a terrorist :^) )
If its an official I may argue I may not - depends on how emotionally charged the circumstances are. Bear in mind that if you argue with a cop they may just run you in for spite even if you are in the right. And be pleasant and non arumentative - just politely point out your rights. If they still insist and you get arrested or booked, well are you "up for" a wrongful arrest battle with your officials? If not learn to walk away. But I would advise this - take down the salient details including the name (if you can get it) badge number, date time and location and file an official complaint with the relevant authority. Helps if you have a friend who is a solicitor who is willing to write on your behalf. It may not help you - but eventually it my help get the message across and help others.
If its an official I may argue I may not - depends on how emotionally charged the circumstances are. Bear in mind that if you argue with a cop they may just run you in for spite even if you are in the right. And be pleasant and non arumentative - just politely point out your rights. If they still insist and you get arrested or booked, well are you "up for" a wrongful arrest battle with your officials? If not learn to walk away. But I would advise this - take down the salient details including the name (if you can get it) badge number, date time and location and file an official complaint with the relevant authority. Helps if you have a friend who is a solicitor who is willing to write on your behalf. It may not help you - but eventually it my help get the message across and help others.
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I used to have trouble with the police in the former Yugoslavia (where I'm originally from). They were sometimes concerned that I could be working for foreign secret services, or something. Which is so ironic, as we needed no foreign spies to destroy the country anyway. Nowadays I'm in Australia and mostly police-trouble free, but recently I've had a run in with a lady who works in a bridal shop. It just happened to be on the corner where I was taking pictures, and she came out and complained that I was photographing their wedding dresses (so I've advanced and become an industrial spy now). I tried to explain that it only looked that way, and that as the lens was wide angle their shop will only be a small part of the image. She didn't really understand/care, so I said sorry and left. (The images didn't come out as I hoped, not really good, but on one there is the shop assistant's funny face, so upset.)
menos
Mentor
Very seldom, I am encountered by a person, to stop photographing, less so by authorities.
The last event, I experienced, has been on a transfer from a Leica store to the airport in Paris, trying out a new lens, I just bought.
I shot a motorcycle, parking in an interesting angle on the sidewalk close up at wide open aperture. I was kneeling on the floor wayyy down, which might have looked funny too.
I young woman with hat and sunglasses and clothes, which completely hid her identity walked into the camera and as she recognized me, went very aggressively towards me, asking me in french, whether I took her picture or the motorcycle. She came as uncomfortably close as well (even by my adjusted standards, living in China for a few years).
As she went in so impolite, I felt quite angry about her, as she ruined the intended photo with her presence in the first place, to go off like a hand grenade afterwards, but tried, to be understandable, friendly and helpful, to help her with the issue.
I politely tried, to explain her in broken English, that I was after the motor cycle and she has been completely unidentifiable due to the thin depth o field, showing her the photo on the back of the M8 (she has been a mere distant blotch in the image, if you excuse the wording).
She would not calm down the slightest bit, when I lost my nerve, pretended, to not being able, to understand her broken English anymore and walked off with her following me a while, with something, that must have been french spoken cursing. Other people on the street looked after her open mouthed
Very surreal situation - really.
When I am through with the editing of the vacation set, I might use the photo and call it "le moteur", as this was the word, I understood from her complains in the first words ;-)
The last event, I experienced, has been on a transfer from a Leica store to the airport in Paris, trying out a new lens, I just bought.
I shot a motorcycle, parking in an interesting angle on the sidewalk close up at wide open aperture. I was kneeling on the floor wayyy down, which might have looked funny too.
I young woman with hat and sunglasses and clothes, which completely hid her identity walked into the camera and as she recognized me, went very aggressively towards me, asking me in french, whether I took her picture or the motorcycle. She came as uncomfortably close as well (even by my adjusted standards, living in China for a few years).
As she went in so impolite, I felt quite angry about her, as she ruined the intended photo with her presence in the first place, to go off like a hand grenade afterwards, but tried, to be understandable, friendly and helpful, to help her with the issue.
I politely tried, to explain her in broken English, that I was after the motor cycle and she has been completely unidentifiable due to the thin depth o field, showing her the photo on the back of the M8 (she has been a mere distant blotch in the image, if you excuse the wording).
She would not calm down the slightest bit, when I lost my nerve, pretended, to not being able, to understand her broken English anymore and walked off with her following me a while, with something, that must have been french spoken cursing. Other people on the street looked after her open mouthed
Very surreal situation - really.
When I am through with the editing of the vacation set, I might use the photo and call it "le moteur", as this was the word, I understood from her complains in the first words ;-)
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Renzsu
Well-known
Hm, was in Central Park relaxing in the grass with some other guys, shooting things around me, when a few people showed up, setup a photoshoot 50 ft. away and basically shouted over to us to stop photographing.
Well I basically blew a gasket, told them they didn't own the park and I could bloody well shoot where I wanted.
After they left, I asked them if I was allowed to shoot again, I was quite stunned when they actually told me that yeah, now it was ok again.... how clueless!!
Well I basically blew a gasket, told them they didn't own the park and I could bloody well shoot where I wanted.
After they left, I asked them if I was allowed to shoot again, I was quite stunned when they actually told me that yeah, now it was ok again.... how clueless!!
akremer
Established
I got a TV camera man all worked up last week.
I took a quick snap from the sidewalk of a reporter being filmed on Courthouse ground. I was meters away from the camera man and the reporter and behind the camera man - it's not like I was in the shot.
I'm interested in continuing to photograph these press gatherings and interviews - am I within my rights to shoot situations like this on courthouse ground from the sidewalk? Can I go further and stand amongst the press?
I took a quick snap from the sidewalk of a reporter being filmed on Courthouse ground. I was meters away from the camera man and the reporter and behind the camera man - it's not like I was in the shot.
I'm interested in continuing to photograph these press gatherings and interviews - am I within my rights to shoot situations like this on courthouse ground from the sidewalk? Can I go further and stand amongst the press?
umcelinho
Marcelo
good thing to know the officer was respectful. sometimes even if you're right, an officer could wrongfully charge you with something. not all policemen are fair and honest, so with that in mind i would avoid confrontation. i rather miss a few shots than to face worse problems. but maybe that's because i'm used to see corrupt cops and already had a problem with one (who ticketed me for illegal parking because i wrote down his name and badge to complain at the police, there were several illegaly parked cars around mine - that actually wasn't -, but i was the only one that got a ticket... fun, isn't it).
Alpacaman
keen bean
I was trying some street photography today, and one person took offence and told me I needed to ask permission to have people in my photo. I explained that I did not, as it was for personal use. I think she got the wrong message form that - it seems I "am a freak and need to get life"
Pico
-
Well, are you a freak?
Gary Winogrand had so many people tell him "You can't take my picture!" to which he replied, "It's MY picture."
Gary Winogrand had so many people tell him "You can't take my picture!" to which he replied, "It's MY picture."
Alpacaman
keen bean
Now there is some inspiration - thanks
Timbuktu
Newbie
People usually approach me with questions on a curious level but more so positive...Nypd officers don't even know the law let alone the power of respect...just stand on your square & all will be good.
dfoo
Well-known
I was trying some street photography today, and one person took offence and told me I needed to ask permission to have people in my photo. I explained that I did not, as it was for personal use. I think she got the wrong message form that - it seems I "am a freak and need to get life"
If people get their nose out of joint I just apologize (Sorry, I didn't know you'd mind) and move on. No need to argue, no need to explain.
[email protected]
Mentor
"What are you doing?" shouted the Naval officer at the baggage inspection at the Islamabad International airport.
Oops. There I was with a fresh Arista Premium 24 exposure in my XA. And I had the audacity to point the xa at the inspectors roughing up and groping some poor passenger's luggage.
He motioned to me and walked me.
(I assumed he was a naval officer because of his starched white uniform, why was a navy guy in Islamabad, where the only sea port was in Karachi. Why airport ?)
I dragged my well-weathered Samsonite bag towards him.
"Where are you from ?" "Why are you taking pictures?" He stared at me sternly with a thick mustache.
I mumbled something and handled over my Singapore passport, thinking to myself, thank goodness I did not have any entry stamp from India.
While Pakistan has a civilian government, years of military dictatorship meant that the country was generally xenophobic of foreigners.
A small crowd was starting to form around us....
I decided not to argue about if I were a spy I would have used my phone to take snaps or even record video on a minox pen.
"I am here on business." I stammered.
"Why are you taking photos ?" the Naval guy pointed to a sign that said no picture taking allowed in airports.
Truth was, while waiting for the impossible queue, I decided to practice zone focusing on the XA...do you know how hard it is to estimate 1.5m and 2m ? What about 5m ?
He gestured to me to hand over my camera, the precious XA with the A16 attachment that I got on ebay for $60, the one with the dim viewfinder but took pictures like this and this on my previous trips.
I had an idea, I opened up the film compartment, the film counter still read zero. I took out the fresh roll of film and handed it to him.
He stared at me, actually everybody stared at me. Perhaps they were thinking why would someone still shoot film, anyway the camera was too "cheap" looking to interest the officer. He took the film and motioned me back to the queue.
Moral of the story: shoot but don't get caught. if caught, be prepared to lose your camera.
Oops. There I was with a fresh Arista Premium 24 exposure in my XA. And I had the audacity to point the xa at the inspectors roughing up and groping some poor passenger's luggage.
He motioned to me and walked me.
(I assumed he was a naval officer because of his starched white uniform, why was a navy guy in Islamabad, where the only sea port was in Karachi. Why airport ?)
I dragged my well-weathered Samsonite bag towards him.
"Where are you from ?" "Why are you taking pictures?" He stared at me sternly with a thick mustache.
I mumbled something and handled over my Singapore passport, thinking to myself, thank goodness I did not have any entry stamp from India.
While Pakistan has a civilian government, years of military dictatorship meant that the country was generally xenophobic of foreigners.
A small crowd was starting to form around us....
I decided not to argue about if I were a spy I would have used my phone to take snaps or even record video on a minox pen.
"I am here on business." I stammered.
"Why are you taking photos ?" the Naval guy pointed to a sign that said no picture taking allowed in airports.
Truth was, while waiting for the impossible queue, I decided to practice zone focusing on the XA...do you know how hard it is to estimate 1.5m and 2m ? What about 5m ?
He gestured to me to hand over my camera, the precious XA with the A16 attachment that I got on ebay for $60, the one with the dim viewfinder but took pictures like this and this on my previous trips.
I had an idea, I opened up the film compartment, the film counter still read zero. I took out the fresh roll of film and handed it to him.
He stared at me, actually everybody stared at me. Perhaps they were thinking why would someone still shoot film, anyway the camera was too "cheap" looking to interest the officer. He took the film and motioned me back to the queue.
Moral of the story: shoot but don't get caught. if caught, be prepared to lose your camera.
Gazzah
RF newbie
"Please delete that picture..."
"Please delete that picture..."
Only happened to me once, a few years back I was passing through a small town here in Northern ireland - there was a 12th parade (orange men) going on so I stopped and took a few pics with my Trip.
A community support officer (civilian police helper) took offence and told me I wasnt allowed to take pictures of them.. I told her that I understood that I could, then she asked me to delete the picture. I pointed ou that it was actually illegal for her to do so, and besides it was a film camera so it was impossible.. She got very confused, even more so when she asked to see the screen... She got so flustered that she walked off and I carried on taking pictures.
I carry a copy of an article called "The photographers rights" that appeared in a mag sometime back in my camera bag, but thats only with me when I haul all the SLR stuff around. It explains what is and isnt allowed in the UK.
Gary H
"Please delete that picture..."
Only happened to me once, a few years back I was passing through a small town here in Northern ireland - there was a 12th parade (orange men) going on so I stopped and took a few pics with my Trip.
A community support officer (civilian police helper) took offence and told me I wasnt allowed to take pictures of them.. I told her that I understood that I could, then she asked me to delete the picture. I pointed ou that it was actually illegal for her to do so, and besides it was a film camera so it was impossible.. She got very confused, even more so when she asked to see the screen... She got so flustered that she walked off and I carried on taking pictures.
I carry a copy of an article called "The photographers rights" that appeared in a mag sometime back in my camera bag, but thats only with me when I haul all the SLR stuff around. It explains what is and isnt allowed in the UK.
Gary H