back alley
IMAGES
way too much politics
not enough photo chat
don't be surprised to wake up and find this thread in the off topic forum.
not enough photo chat
don't be surprised to wake up and find this thread in the off topic forum.
Rick Waldroup
Well-known
Occupy Wall Street - Dallas, Texas - October 6, 2011
Pike Park - Shot #1
Pike Park - Shot #2
Pike Park - Shot #3
Protesters In Front of the Federal Reserve Bank
Pike Park - Shot #1
Pike Park - Shot #2
Pike Park - Shot #3
Protesters In Front of the Federal Reserve Bank
bwcolor
Mentor
Civil unrest.. get use to it.. things aren't getting better any time soon. These images are full of emotion and do convey a message. Unfortunately, many of us may soon have the opportunity to post images of these sorts. These folks have one thing right, we are in a real mess. Great shots.. thanks.
Ohh.. and I do think that these images naturally encourage discussion. If they didn't, would they really be connecting with the viewer?
Ohh.. and I do think that these images naturally encourage discussion. If they didn't, would they really be connecting with the viewer?
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seakayaker1
Well-known
Wall Street Protest ~ Occupy Seattle
Leica M9 with Zeiss C Sonnar T* 50mm f1.5 ZM
NickTrop
Mentor
Just so happens on Friday night, I teach a college class in visual communications where for students will shoot a short science fiction film (on my DSLR) as a class project. Last Friday the topic was lighting, a passionate subject for me since I was a cinematography major back in the day (like decades ago...) We had a discussion about a film I showed in class, Mario Bava's 1963 Black Sabbath - a horror trilogy. The assignment was to analyze the lighting set-ups: where? how? and most importantly, why? (Extra credit to spot a glaring continuity error in one of the scenes that may have been intentional... ) We analyzed the lighting of one of the three shorts, "The Drop of Water"... I thought this would be fun for the students and pertinent. I wanted them to be able to "see a film in a different way..."
I told them... "You're not watching the film... You're analyzing the lighting..." And they did... But not 100% of the time - maybe 50-75% of the time. Several students were very effected by the film... One of my older students in his 50's remembered seeing it as a child at a drive-in Crete (military father...). He said the image of the corpse stayed with him since he was a kid, and was freaking out that I picked this film - he admitted still being leery to watch this film. Others were commenting on this, that - watching rather than analyzing.
But we did discuss the lighting too... a lot. They saw gels (lots of gels if you're familiar with Bava), they saw where spot lights were placed, they saw rims, kickers, where backlighting was used, how practicals where handled/used, where eyes were highlighted, they saw where cukies (cookies...) were used, they saw fill and key shadows on walls they would have most likely overlooked had we not discussed 3-point lighting... They saw where the director chose to use high-key lighting, where the lighting was low-key, and were aware of various contrast ratios and when/how they were used... They were even able to see "bokeh" and when/why that was used in certain scenes. They became aware of the thought that went in to how every object in every scene was lit.
But you know what? Try as I might, the topic swayed back to "that was awesome" and I couldn't get them to detach themselves 100% from watching the horror film...
Why?
Because it's a damned good one! And the subjects and techniques were so powerful that even when requested they couldn't help but be engaged in the story and the images - try as they might. And this was not surprising, and to be expected. In fact, I used it as a taking point about the power of visual communication - how, when it's "on", it raises passions/emotions and it's not possible to fully detach yourself.
The key take away is "how/why"....
Mods/Dissenters - see my point? Nothing going on here on this thread is out of the ordinary and is to be expected even though it's a photography blog, just like my students (some of them) couldn't help but scream/gasp when the corpse of that old lady rises from the bed to reclaim her stolen ring in the horror film I showed...
Thank you all for contributing to this thread... Too many to comment on individually at this point! But I will try later on when I have more time...
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gdi
Mentor
You are over thinking this. I can see why you would get the impression that your photos are emotionally powerful, given the feedback in the thread. But many of those posts were put forth simply to take advantage of the opportunity to start a political discussion by people who feel the protests validate their viewpoint.
There is nothing wrong with your photos, but as protest shots, capturing real passion and emotion, they are really nothing remarkable. I don't think that is your fault, there doesn't seem to have been much going on that provided the opportunity to convey a strong message. So, I don't see the analogy with students' visceral reaction to a classic horror pic as valid.
Roger Hicks
Mentor
Not so. Compare them with Willy Ronis's reports on strikes, especially the picture of the strike leader at the Renault factory, or much of Rodchenko's stuff, or a good deal of National Socialist propaganda photography (diametrically opposed political philosophies, for those low on political awareness), and the best of Nick's shots (and some others') are first class pictures. Compare the best pics on this thread (the people, expressions, poses, legibility of placards) and the ones that aren't so good, and you'll see that this is absolutely about photography as a means of communication.
Cheers,
R.
gdi
Mentor
Sorry Roger you are wrong. These photos simply are not powerful, and evoke little emotion. And my reply to Nicktrop was in response to his obvious assumption that they do exactly that.
And, while I agree that some of his photos show little true "passion", I find it amazing that you would place Nicktrop in the company of Willie Ronis (at least based on the posted shots). But people view things differently, and have different standards of first class, so your views don't have to be validated by me.
JSU
-
I worked late into the night and my brain hasn't fully awakened this morning. More coffee needed here. But this comment, particularly the highlighted (boldface) passages, reflect my feelings perfectly.
I have no expectations of photographs from the protests nor do I see a point in comparing these images shared here with prior protests for different issues during different times by different protestors.
This collection of images of protest, though, as a whole strike me more as an interesting series of portraits. I appreciate those of the musicians as engaged activity, as I would hope/expect anyone making music would be. The portraits are fine as such but I wonder how engaged the subjects are with the situation and how many are reacting to your camera.
I enjoy seeing all the images here, both strong and weak. I enjoy reading the reactions to these photos. I am pleased the comments posted reflecting the politics of individuals with no context to the photographs or photography have been moved.
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NickTrop
Mentor
Nope... Not over thinking anything. It's a simple statement is this. I showed a horror flick, the intent was to analyze the lighting. Students couldn't help but react to it... despite being told not to, that they were to "step away" because the found the subject engaging.
Here, instead of a horror film, we have some civil unrest and a pronounced political POV. Alls I'm saying is some "drift" is to be expected based on the subject matter. Your comments regarding content - I shot what was there. Feel free to like them or not... be my guest. I'm not going to defend them, they are what they are, they move you or they don't. Whatever. It was a civil peaceful demonstration - some were more passonate than others. It was a peaceful rally, not a riot. And, yes, there were cameras and cell phones there as would be expected in these times where everyone has cameras and cell phones.
Yes - as is evident, by 1000's of threads on this very active board... There is ONE - this one, that is currently up with a POV about a subject. (It also happens to have - and will have - more passionate street photograhy, actual pictures of what these cameras are supposed to be used for, than any thread in recent memory. Or are we supposed to have endless silly discussions about arcane topics about decades old rangefinder bodies and lenses - an that's it?)
But because you don't share its POV, possibly - even though there are literally thousands of other threads you can read and participate in, you want this one taken down, moved, comments deleted. (And that's a general use of "you" - not a specific "you" directed at you
How 'bout just skipping this one (one, as in 1 out of the thousands of threads here...) thread that has actual street photography of protestt and some reasonable, thus far respectful and expected "sway" into politics, and reading the thousands (as in 1000's) of others on arcane topics ranging from Yashica Electro "POD" repairs, to fixing light leaks in 1960' FSU medium format folders, to comparison of results of coated vs. uncoated Leitz Summar lenses from the 1930's - eh?
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claacct
Well-known
Very good protest photos.
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raid
Dad Photographer
Such images are about what is going on in some streets. Is it 100% politics or is it reporting about events?
If some people do not like this thread for political reasons, maybe they could start another thread with images that show another side to this issue.
If some people do not like this thread for political reasons, maybe they could start another thread with images that show another side to this issue.
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gdi
Mentor
Nope... Not over thinking anything. It's a simple statement is this. I showed a horror flick, the intent was to analyze the lighting. Students couldn't help but react to it... despite being told not to, that they were to "step away" because the found the subject engaging.
Here, instead of a horror film, we have some civil unrest and a pronounced political POV. Alls I'm saying is some "drift" is to be expected based on the subject matter. Your comments regarding content - I shot what was there. Feel free to like them or not... be my guest. I'm not going to defend them, they are what they are, they move you or they don't. Whatever. It was a civil peaceful demonstration - some were more passonate than others. It was a peaceful rally, not a riot. And, yes, there were cameras and cell phones there as would be expected in these times where everyone has cameras and cell phones.
Yes - as is evident, by 1000's of threads on this very active board... There is ONE - this one, that is currently up with a POV about a subject. (It also happens to have - and will have - more passionate street photograhy, actual pictures of what these cameras are supposed to be used for, than any thread in recent memory. Or are we supposed to have endless silly discussions about arcane topics about decades old rangefinder bodies and lenses - an that's it?)
But because you don't share its POV, possibly - even though there are literally thousands of other threads you can read and participate in, you want this one taken down, moved, comments deleted. (And that's a general use of "you" - not a specific "you" directed at you
How 'bout just skipping this one (one, as in 1 out of the thousands of threads here...) thread that has actual street photography of protestt and some reasonable, thus far respectful and expected "sway" into politics, and reading the thousands (as in 1000's) of others on arcane topics ranging from Yashica Electro "POD" repairs, to fixing light leaks in 1960' FSU medium format folders, to comparison of results of coated vs. uncoated Leitz Summar lenses from the 1930's - eh?
Yes, I could choose to move on to other threads to comment, but I don't care to. If I thought the thread should be deleted, then I wouldn't contribute to it. The fact that I have questioned some posts attributing an over-the-top, IMO, level of social/political significance to the photos should be welcome, unless you are looking only for personal validation, no? Or, do you think that comments should only be of the Flickresque "Stunning", "Brilliant", "First class" variety; other opinions should be taken elsewhere?
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gdmcclintock
Well-known
To view Nick's photographs of the OWS protests in the tradition of Willy Ronis is an inspired idea.
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gdmcclintock
Well-known
We have much to learn by analyzing contemporary images of social unrest in light of the photographic tradition of which Willy Ronis's work is an important part.
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porktaco
Well-known
exactly correct
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NickTrop
Mentor
M2/ Arista Premium/ Summarit 1.5
One word - great! Perfect! (Oh - that's two words...
)bwcolor
Mentor
Perhaps, images portraying politics of a very strongly left, or right of center presentation are best presented in B&W. Of course, there are always exceptions.
gdi
Mentor
My comment about the comparison of the OP's shots to iconic photography of Ronis as inspiration is simply a reflection of my opinion that it is hyperbole.
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gdi
Mentor
And B&W film at that,
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