pevelg
Well-known
I have started some threads about my recent foray into the darkroom world. What started as a Saturday photography class is starting to grow into hours spent researching enlargers and scanning local ads for darkroom equipment. I just love the process!!! Doing test strips, playing with contrast control, working in a dimly lit room, and that magical transformation of a white sheet into a gorgeous image.... THAT is what photography is about!!!
About three years ago (maybe two), I had a Hasselblad 500c/m which I used for a short while, experimenting with the 6x6 format. I found focusing hard with the dim ground glass and as lab development was expensive and I was a penniless student, the several rolls of film I used only got developed; never scanned or printed. Based on the negatives, I was unimpressed when comparing them to Mamiya 7 slides. The camera left my custody to a lucky RF member.
Now, several years later, I dug up the negatives and took them to the school darkroom. I had forgotten that the film was C41 and ended up having to print at 4 grade contrast for most of the photos to get a decent black. Anyways, the contact sheets, though dim, had some great photos on them. Here are two that really stood out for me....
I know a digital capture (M8) does not do justice to the prints.... I just am absolutely in love with the results and the process behind getting the results. Does that mean a Hassy is once again in my future? Not really. The Mamiya 7ii is a great camera and will suffice for now, especially once I get the 50mm lens.
The greater question is this. What about my Leica M8? Do I keep her? Here is a brief five year "photographic history:"
1. Borrow dads FED 5 and enter into RF photography.
2. Buy Zorki 4k and assorted lenses and really start learning.
3. Buy Bessa R4M after Zorki started dying, sell Zorki
4. Buy Leica M6ttl, sell Bessa
5. Buy Mamiya 7
6. Sell Mamiya 7 (too expensive development)
7. Buy Hasselblad 500cm
8. Sell Hasselblad, unimpressed with negatives
9. Tired of scanning, decide to get Epson RD-1
10. Results just don't compare to slide film, sell RD-1
11. Buy Mamiya 7ii... Just love the system.
12. Buy Leica M4 as M7ii is too slow...
13. Dislike not having a light meter... Still hate scanning....
14. Sell M4 and buy M8....
In thinking about all this, I realized that I almost NEVER look at the photos taken with the RD-1. I also do not spend much time looking at my M8 pictures. I have an album of old prints from my Bessa and earlier days and I find the pictures so engaging. Though the files from the M8 are great, they are not as fun to look at.
Will the M8 files give me the same feel and attachment as these few prints I made from the Hassy? Will M8 files bring me the same wonder in two year that looking at my M6ttl slides projected create?
It is a strange battle. I like to share images, yet the only real way for me is via the computer. Yet I dislike the film to digital process. No amount of equipment could make it worth it, other than a pro lab doing my scanning. But it is so expensive.... The M8 is a quick way, but I now no longer have the full enjoyment of photography.
Getting into the darkroom has been a breath of fresh air in my photographic world. And now that I can make prints and develop on my own, a large portion of the cost barrier is lifted. I may be limited to B&W for now, but I do not mind so much.
So what do I do with the M8? It is a great camera, worthy to be used, and gets the job done of digitalizing images. But it lacks the tangibility of film, the experimentation, the science, the trial and error. Do I just keep both film and digital systems? Or should I let go of the M8 and get an inferior digital for "digital copy" sakes? Currently I am leaning of letting go of the camera....
AUGHH!!!! such a tough decision! :bang::bang::bang::bang::bang:
About three years ago (maybe two), I had a Hasselblad 500c/m which I used for a short while, experimenting with the 6x6 format. I found focusing hard with the dim ground glass and as lab development was expensive and I was a penniless student, the several rolls of film I used only got developed; never scanned or printed. Based on the negatives, I was unimpressed when comparing them to Mamiya 7 slides. The camera left my custody to a lucky RF member.
Now, several years later, I dug up the negatives and took them to the school darkroom. I had forgotten that the film was C41 and ended up having to print at 4 grade contrast for most of the photos to get a decent black. Anyways, the contact sheets, though dim, had some great photos on them. Here are two that really stood out for me....
I know a digital capture (M8) does not do justice to the prints.... I just am absolutely in love with the results and the process behind getting the results. Does that mean a Hassy is once again in my future? Not really. The Mamiya 7ii is a great camera and will suffice for now, especially once I get the 50mm lens.
The greater question is this. What about my Leica M8? Do I keep her? Here is a brief five year "photographic history:"
1. Borrow dads FED 5 and enter into RF photography.
2. Buy Zorki 4k and assorted lenses and really start learning.
3. Buy Bessa R4M after Zorki started dying, sell Zorki
4. Buy Leica M6ttl, sell Bessa
5. Buy Mamiya 7
6. Sell Mamiya 7 (too expensive development)
7. Buy Hasselblad 500cm
8. Sell Hasselblad, unimpressed with negatives
9. Tired of scanning, decide to get Epson RD-1
10. Results just don't compare to slide film, sell RD-1
11. Buy Mamiya 7ii... Just love the system.
12. Buy Leica M4 as M7ii is too slow...
13. Dislike not having a light meter... Still hate scanning....
14. Sell M4 and buy M8....
In thinking about all this, I realized that I almost NEVER look at the photos taken with the RD-1. I also do not spend much time looking at my M8 pictures. I have an album of old prints from my Bessa and earlier days and I find the pictures so engaging. Though the files from the M8 are great, they are not as fun to look at.
Will the M8 files give me the same feel and attachment as these few prints I made from the Hassy? Will M8 files bring me the same wonder in two year that looking at my M6ttl slides projected create?
It is a strange battle. I like to share images, yet the only real way for me is via the computer. Yet I dislike the film to digital process. No amount of equipment could make it worth it, other than a pro lab doing my scanning. But it is so expensive.... The M8 is a quick way, but I now no longer have the full enjoyment of photography.
Getting into the darkroom has been a breath of fresh air in my photographic world. And now that I can make prints and develop on my own, a large portion of the cost barrier is lifted. I may be limited to B&W for now, but I do not mind so much.
So what do I do with the M8? It is a great camera, worthy to be used, and gets the job done of digitalizing images. But it lacks the tangibility of film, the experimentation, the science, the trial and error. Do I just keep both film and digital systems? Or should I let go of the M8 and get an inferior digital for "digital copy" sakes? Currently I am leaning of letting go of the camera....
AUGHH!!!! such a tough decision! :bang::bang::bang::bang::bang:
Darshan
Well-known
Hmmm....tough dilemma. Since you like the film process so much and the only concern is funding the expensive scans, I think if you sell your M8 you will have enough funds to cover the scanning for a long time. And you already got the developing/printing covered by your newly acquired skills 
.
Dan.
P.S: really enjoying your M4, thx.
.Dan.
P.S: really enjoying your M4, thx.
shadowfox
Darkroom printing lives
I want to highlight these words.
A few times I get snide remarks (not only online) or one of those "Poor guy... he's lost it" -look when I express this sentiment.
You get the total package now, Pavel. This is what film photography should be about. Not just an alternative to digital, not just another medium, it's the total experience that is not complete until you do the whole thing.
And by the way, those prints are precious.
RayPA
Ignore It (It'll go away)
Great post! I doubt I could ever get away from shooting film. I like the hybrid process (I enjoy scanning and inkjet printing!), but, when I see a well-made silver print, I can't help but entertain thoughts of getting back into the darkroom.
You might want to consider selling the M8 and adding a nice flatbed scanner (optimized for flat art), so you can scan your prints and share your output.
/
/
JayGannon
Well-known
If it was me?
Sell the M8, get another M6 and a GF1 or GH1.
Use one M6 for B&W one for color. And the digi for snaps with adaptors for pretty much every lens available to you.
Use any cash left over for more film and chems.
Sell the M8, get another M6 and a GF1 or GH1.
Use one M6 for B&W one for color. And the digi for snaps with adaptors for pretty much every lens available to you.
Use any cash left over for more film and chems.
We have a For Trade section, free. You could put the M8 up for trade for a Film camera and maybe a scanner. I've read RFF members that traded an M8 for a good film camera. If digital is not for you, get what makes you happy. You will not be the first person.
I took someone up on a similar trade for an EP2, EVF, and 17/2.8. The person bought it for street photography, did not like it. I traded a Bessa R2 and Summicron for it. The EP2 was so nice I sent them a Canon 35/2.8 after the deal was done for their street photography. Some trades work out well.
I took someone up on a similar trade for an EP2, EVF, and 17/2.8. The person bought it for street photography, did not like it. I traded a Bessa R2 and Summicron for it. The EP2 was so nice I sent them a Canon 35/2.8 after the deal was done for their street photography. Some trades work out well.
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monochromejrnl
Well-known
You need to decide what your end objective is - share images online on RFF, Flickr, etc., have prints made by someone else (ranges from using Costco/Walmart to working with a master printer), or do you ultimately want to make prints with your own hands.
Once you decide on the 'end product'(s) you want - then choose the tools to best suits your attainment of the 'ends'.
Once you decide on the 'end product'(s) you want - then choose the tools to best suits your attainment of the 'ends'.
Soothsayerman
Established
Personally, I'd sell the M8 and invest in a cheaper digital solution since obviously your passion lies within the Mamiya and film.
The 7II is a very fine camera imho and I would not have a lot of capital invested in digital if film and darkroom was my thing.
The 7II is a very fine camera imho and I would not have a lot of capital invested in digital if film and darkroom was my thing.
pevelg
Well-known
A lot of this has to do about cost. With the current market, the M8 is valued between 2400 to 1900. That is a lot of money. I've thought a lot about certain other equipment I own. For example, the Mamiya 7ii. I love the photos, I like the picture taking experience, and now I also like the development and printing side. So while the system is expensive, I get great pleasure using it, even if I earn nothing from it. I have a Ramirez guitar that I haven't played for several months. However, I can't even consider selling it. Why? It creates such great music. Whenever I take the guitar out I am in love with it again and want to dive back into studying music. Sadly, time constraints and current life situation make it difficult. My audio gear..... Lots of money in there but again, it creates such sweet music that I can't come to sell it. Last time I sold my vinyl system I ended up getting a new system 5x more expensive.
So, back the the M8. I like the camera, it is fun to use, it gets good results. What don't I like? Not much, mainly the 1.33x crop factor which makes my favorite lens, the Zeiss Sonnar, slightly less awesome. I am considering getting another lens similar in signature but wider to fix this issue. The real issue lies in the process which I don't care so much for. However, this process allows me to share photos with friends and family and that result is nice. But I can certainly do this much cheaper. But the M8 gets such good quality files...
I am chasing my tail here...
I guess the question is philosophical in a way. Do you go and do something you don't relatively like for a goal of sharing? Or do you do it the way you do like but decrease your ability to share? And finally, if you don't relatively like it, should it be so expensive?
So, back the the M8. I like the camera, it is fun to use, it gets good results. What don't I like? Not much, mainly the 1.33x crop factor which makes my favorite lens, the Zeiss Sonnar, slightly less awesome. I am considering getting another lens similar in signature but wider to fix this issue. The real issue lies in the process which I don't care so much for. However, this process allows me to share photos with friends and family and that result is nice. But I can certainly do this much cheaper. But the M8 gets such good quality files...
I am chasing my tail here...
I guess the question is philosophical in a way. Do you go and do something you don't relatively like for a goal of sharing? Or do you do it the way you do like but decrease your ability to share? And finally, if you don't relatively like it, should it be so expensive?
Sell the M8, buy the film camera of your choice and spend the rest on a used u4/3 camera.
pevelg
Well-known
I sold my M8 and recently even sold the M6 0.85 that I got to replace it.
There's my M3 standing on my desk right now, I have a prewar IIIa-sync and a Mamiya C330f that will at the end of the month have three more lenses for company. Bigger stuff: a Horseman 970 and a Kodak Medalist II, still bigger stuff: a 100+ years old 5x7 inch Vageeswari plate camera that I will probably spend a year on, trying to properly master it. I like 'hybrid', all my film gets scanned and developed in LR and PS.
Point is: I get along fine without a digital camera. Film photography slows me down enough to actually enjoy what I'm doing and creating. I'd love to work with a master printer one day and see my work as true silver prints. Until then, the scanner does do fine.
Shot with Leica M6, Konica L-Hexanon 35/2.0, Rollei Retro100, Rodinal 1:100 stand. Canterbury UK, October 2009.
Love the tonality of that photo. Do you scan your own film? I've done film scanning and never enjoyed that, but I think I'll give print scanning a try. I feel the same about film photography forcing you to slow down and actually enjoy the work.
DanP. Yes, selling the camera would allow a lab to scan my film for a very long time!!!
Okay, on the Sonnar: you are not going to find a fast 40mm Sonnar for the M8. Best you can do is a 40mm F2.8, and it will not have the F1.5 look. I have no trouble with using my 5cm F1.5 Sonnars, custom made into LTM, with my M8. Let's me get a little tighter with it. But if you do not like the 1.3x crop, and it spoils it for you, get an M3. I have two of them, and a number of other LTM cameras.
On the M8- if you like it, keep it. If you use it, keep it. If you do not like it, and you do not use it, then sell it. Both conditions must be met to sell it with peace of mind. If those conditions are not met, you will regret it.
On the M8- if you like it, keep it. If you use it, keep it. If you do not like it, and you do not use it, then sell it. Both conditions must be met to sell it with peace of mind. If those conditions are not met, you will regret it.
Alejandro CD
Member
I think both film and digital have pros and cons. I'll probably kept the M8 unless i needed cash to spend in other equipment or did not enjoy shooting with it.
It's you call!
Cheers,
Alejandro
It's you call!
Cheers,
Alejandro
Alejandro CD
Member
I think both film and digital have pros and cons. I'll probably kept the M8 unless i needed cash to spend in other equipment or did not enjoy shooting with it.
It's your call!
Cheers,
Alejandro
It's your call!
Cheers,
Alejandro
user237428934
User deletion pending
Why is scanning so expensive. If your main output is a wet print and you only want the digital version for sharing on the web then a normal epson flatbed filmscanner should be enough, especially if you scan MF negatives.
pevelg
Well-known
You are right. I like the camera and I do use it. Just spent a lot of time looking at the several hundred photos I've taken with it and the Sonnar thus far... I really do like the pictures achieved, even with crop. I am going to stick with camera unless finances force me to let it go. This has been the best digital I've used thus far.... And since I feel I need to have one, might as well keep the one I like. I'll just have to forget the price I paid. I'll probably just get another film camera (M4 again w/ VC meter?, Hassy?) and trying focusing more on film as that is what I really enjoy. I'll try getting some scans of my prints as well so I can post some of my work. Thanks all.
bwidjaja
Warung Photo
Just another perspective. Since funds are limited, I have to prioritize and now film medium wins. But I do have a use for digital camera for family snapshots mainly. I use GH1 + 20mm pancake for that purpose.
So, unless there is another alternative to M8 on the digital department, I say you should keep it.
So, unless there is another alternative to M8 on the digital department, I say you should keep it.
Steve M.
Mentor
I know exactly what you're talking about. The only answer, and I am really saying this to myself as well, is concentrate on the analog printing and stay away from the computer. OK, OK, if not for the computer I wouldn't have seen your posting, but I mean concentrate on showing your work IN PERSON. Strange concept isn't it? Dry mount some new work on something cheap and invite some people for a casual Velveeta and Ripple chat. Campaign at some coffee houses/galleries to have your work shown. Try the fun places, not the High Art Dealers.
It's been so long I nearly have forgotten, but being in a room while strangers mill around and comment on your work is hard to beat. The internet posting isn't the same. You get to meet other photographers this way too.
I guess you'll have to sell the digital. That will buy a LOT of wine and cheese.
It's been so long I nearly have forgotten, but being in a room while strangers mill around and comment on your work is hard to beat. The internet posting isn't the same. You get to meet other photographers this way too.
I guess you'll have to sell the digital. That will buy a LOT of wine and cheese.
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BillBingham2
Registered User
Don't be afraid of getting back into MF cameras. A TLR can be a lot of fun and is easier to lug around than a 'Blad. Another option to think of is a Crown Graphic 4x5, very cool range finder that takes 120/220 backs as well as 4x5 sheets. There is something magical about silver film and prints, but digital is a lot of fun too.
Right now I'm going through a small digital camera phase, who knows where I will go next.
Enjoy the journey and remember, keep trying, learning and sharing your results.
B2 (;->
Right now I'm going through a small digital camera phase, who knows where I will go next.
Enjoy the journey and remember, keep trying, learning and sharing your results.
B2 (;->
akremer
Established
you've gotta calm down, pick something and stick with it.