Adapting contax G lenses for Leica M or screw

[claude]

I have had no less than 5 Contax G cameras over the years. Two G2s and three G1s. Each time I have purchased one, it has been because of the excellent ergonomics and phenomenal optics.

Each time I have sold the camera it has been for the following reasons:

1. No focus control. The camera is like a stupid robot, you have no control. Some pictures are ok, and some are not.
2. Batteries dying.
3. Noisy.

These are fatal design flaws.

I live in Japan, and I know what the engineers and designers at Kyocera were thinking. They thought they were being really clever packing all that electronics into the camera. But if they wanted a Leica beater, they would have made a camera that at least can be carried around the world without the fear of it dying in the middle of nowhere without some rare and expensive batteries available.

They would have allowed manual focusing.

This is typical Japanese thinking. Japanese focus on the details, and lose sight of the big picture. That is why japanese products are so reliable, the small pieces fit together very well, but the overall picture is not inspiring.

Anyway, I thought it would be great if one could buy those cheap excellent lenses and fit them on a Real rangefinder. Anyone have any ideas.

The solution would be for Zeiss themselves or maybe even Contax to produce the lenses in Leica M mount. Hell, they could even make a Contax camera with the M mount.

 

[NoTx]

Re: Adapting contax G lenses for Leica M or screw

I have had no less than 5 Contax G cameras over the years. Two G2s and three G1s. Each time I have purchased one, it has been because of the excellent ergonomics and phenomenal optics.

Each time I have sold the camera it has been for the following reasons:

1. No focus control. The camera is like a stupid robot, you have no control. Some pictures are ok, and some are not.

Ummm.... Ok. Here you got me. I MF about 50% of my shots with my G1, and a G2 I was playing with a few days ago, I did the same.

So... ummm... what do you mean?

I2. Batteries dying.
3. Noisy.

Ok, I shoot about 20 rolls a month, I am on my second set of batteries this year... and the camera is about the same volume as a Minolta 7SII Himatic... the G2 is quieter.

I live in Japan, and I know what the engineers and designers at Kyocera were thinking. They thought they were being really clever packing all that electronics into the camera. But if they wanted a Leica beater, they would have made a camera that at least can be carried around the world without the fear of it dying in the middle of nowhere without some rare and expensive batteries available.

They would have allowed manual focusing.

This is typical Japanese thinking. Japanese focus on the details, and lose sight of the big picture. That is why japanese products are so reliable, the small pieces fit together very well, but the overall picture is not inspiring.

Anyway, I thought it would be great if one could buy those cheap excellent lenses and fit them on a Real rangefinder. Anyone have any ideas.

The solution would be for Zeiss themselves or maybe even Contax to produce the lenses in Leica M mount. Hell, they could even make a Contax camera with the M mount.

I would rather see contax bring back the old manual mount.. or better yet, just update their current camera. Remember, a lot of old contax cameras had the same wheel focusing that the Gs do. I would like to see a standard rangefinder contrast based focuser in the darn things... the dots are odd (but very usable). This way the could also keep their current lenses to.

 

[claude]

I have never been able to get more than 10 rolls of film off one set of batteries on a Contax G1 or G2. Fatal design flaw

The viewfinder is a mess. There is the glowing display at the bottom, it should be much more discrete. You basically end up concentrating on pointing the focus lines at someone's nose or eyes to take the picture and snap away.

The viewfinder should be invisible, not a huge barrier between you and the subject.

The bottom line is that with the contax you give up control to the camera.

I am going to try and talk to someone at Kyocera about this camera.

 

[mfs]

I have used the G2 for 5+ years. It is an excellent camera if you understand the limitations of a single sensor AF system. It was designed before the current multi-sensor AF SLR's, and therefore lacks the sophistication of these more complex AF systems. Keeping that in mind, you can achiever really great shots with this small, and light camera. The lenses are superb with the exception of the 35mm Planar (which is only very good). The battery issue is the same noise that Leica users promulgate about how the cameras are highly dependent on electrical power. My answer, keep some spares. They are Li based, and are readily available, and long lived.
I wish that the lens designs were carried over to the Kyocera MF based SLRS. My guess is that no upgrade to the body will be made unless they use this camera form factor for a digital body.

Martin

 

[NoTx]

I have never been able to get more than 10 rolls of film off one set of batteries on a Contax G1 or G2. Fatal design flaw

Does anyone else have this problem? I know I don't. You cannot however leave the camera on when not in use... beyon that...?

The viewfinder is a mess. There is the glowing display at the bottom, it should be much more discrete. You basically end up concentrating on pointing the focus lines at someone's nose or eyes to take the picture and snap away.

However, at least with the 90mm... you have a much better magnification than you will ever have with an M. You magnification is 1x. Very awesome for catching action.

But the lights should be an option... or at least a brightness control. Hat what it can do to my night vision.

The bottom line is that with the contax you give up control to the camera.

Dunno, I control focus, mainly by the numbers btw. I control the shutter... the apature... what do you not control? I think you are not looking at the camera in the right light. It is a RF, but it has AF. This is starting to sound like a lot of arguments against AF SLRs (which I can take or leave for somethings... but others, I want AF).

You in the end only give up the level of control you want to. Hell, you even have an AFL with a half press.

 

[claude]

You are supposed to turn the camera off? No on ever told me that. : 0

But the thing that was killing me was playing Russian Roulette with whether the pics were in focus or not. A rangefinder is very exact, you know if it is in focus or not, the contax is a crapshoot.

Those lenses are so low cost, an of superb quality, I just wish they would make them in manual focus versions, sniff sniff! I far prefer the 50mm planar to a summicron.

Do any of you know how the other choices stack up against the contax lenses? For example the cosina offerings, or say some of the old canon or nikon lenses? Forget about Leica, they are out of my price range, and my camera only takes screw mount (canon 7s).

 

[NoTx]

You know, I find that very odd. I do not think I have had a roll with an out of focus shot in the last twenty rolls. I know I had none in the last 10. And I push it to the limit (90mm at 1 meter and so on). I wonder if you kept tossing them before catching the knack for them? They are kinda weird, and early on I felt similar... but after a while, I didn't even think on it.

As for turning it off... yes you should On the otherhand, it supposedly has a "sleep" mode. Bloody worthless if you ask me. You leave it that way for a week and suprise, it drained you dry while sleeping.

Comparable lenses? Well, the current Summicron 50/2 is just a little less sharp than the 45/2 Planar. The current Elmarit 90/2.8 is a hair sharper than the 90/2.8 Sonnar. There is no comparison on the market for the 21/2.8, 28/2.8 or the 35/2 (which just isn’t considered good enough for the Contax G… lol). The hologon 16/8 is also in a class by itself. Cosina? Not a chance. The problem is they are modern designs with some of the best coatings ever developed.

Damn, an M adapter with a focus wheel would be cool wouldn’t it? Or better yet... a digital G.

 

[jdos2]

I had a G2 for over a year, and only replaced batteries once- and that was as a precaution, not as an "out of need" sort of a thing.

I agree, though- I had several shots that were out of focus- usually a couple per roll. Always surprising.

What I'd like to see is a manual version of the camera- the focusing wheel would turn the lens directly and an Optical Rangefinder would coincide (with the M-3 DOF notches- that would be GREAT!) for focusing. I don't know if it's possible, though, as I don't know if a certain number of degrees of turns on the focusing screw (on the lens) is a particular distance (like on the old Contaxes)

Very nice lenses. I really liked the camera and would love to have another- the only one for which I have sellers remorse. Finances being what they are, that's just Not Going to Happen anytime soon.

 

[claude]

Here in Tokyo, you can score a perfect G1 with a 45mm lens for around 300 bucks.That is what I paid. So it is tempting to grab another one, although after four or five bodies that sounds a bit much. The only rangefinder I have ever had any luck with has been a Leica M6, pics always in focus, and exposure flawless.

It's frustrating, I want to like the Contax, but the designers were smoking I don't know what when then cooked up the G series. So many flaws:

1. battery dependent
2. Auto focus only ( and not even utrasonic, but an incredibly noisey whizzing mess)
3. No manual wind, motor only!?
4. Awful, terrible viewfinder
5. Shiny gold like finish, what ever happened to being inconspicuous. Everybody wants to check out your cool camera, so much for snapping away unnoticed.
6. huge honking display with a glowing flourescent green background.

I am getting so worked up, I think I better jump on the Shinkansen and go down to Kyoto and berate the engineers to their faces! (please don't take what I am saying to heart, if you have a G and it is like you left arm, more power to you.)

Well, end of rant. BTW, I LOVE those lenses!

 

[Doug]

Kevin Cameras sold me a M42 lens to Olympus Pen body adaptor, and was good to deal with. I think his prices are "collector" level, but then he does have some tempting stuff!

That Hologon is incredibly expensive; give thanks to Cosina for coming up with the inexpensive Voigtlander 15mm, which by the way is an f/4.5 lens. It's the 12mm that's f/5.6

 

[NoTx]

While I disagree with the argument that the camera is basically unusable (as I do not have those problems), I would like to see a fully mechanical version made available. Especially weather proofed like the S2 SLR. Or at least a silent version for street (my normal use for my G1 anyways). I would also like to see only black versions come out… or at least come out first.

Hell, I would not mind seeing Cosina bring out a Bessa in that mount (no real reason the couldn’t, classic Contax is no more complicated).

 

[NoTx]

Oh, and an M adapter with wheel for focussing sounds complicated... but I dont see why it would not work, unless the film plane is that close... and I did not think it was (being the adapter Hologons I have seen seem to disappear into the M6).

Here is an odd question. A G to M Adapter... how much would it be worth? If it could use all the lenses? I would probabbly pay a grand. What do others think?

 

[SolaresLarrave]

To be quite honest... the Contax G and the Leica M are very different animals. To me, while both can be called "rangefinders" and their glass quality is simply indisputable, their features hurt some and help others. Leicas were designed as journalistic tools at one time, so it's relevant that they be silent and resilient. The G series was probably a designer's afterthought... or some kind of wet dream coming from a P&S engineer and destined to be a step above the mechanical rangefinder. I don't want to trash one and deify the other, but then... I fail to see the use a cross-mount adaptor would have. I like my Leicas for a reason, and my Contax is very dear to me for another, so I can't see them as equivalent or as similar as the Leica IIIc can be to the Bessa R, for instance.

Besides, there's the little practical matter mentined by Robert: how much would such an adaptor cost, and who would buy one? If you, claude, lurk for a while the Leica forum in photo.net, you'll find a particular bias against the Contax G... which is odd, as many of these Leica owners (and sometimes priests) also have digital cameras in their arsenals.

Good luck with your next Contax though...

 

[NoTx]

Good luck with your next Contax though...

'Wow there. I would not sell my contax G1 for anything. I don't really get out of focus shots (funny being how often i shoot wide open). But, having use of the lenses in both situations would be kinda cool.

 

[claude]

Well, like I said, I really wanted to like the Contax, but the finder, battery, noise. lack of control and more were deal breakers for me.

The Hexar RF was almost right, but the finder is no comparison with a the Leica or even the Bessa. And then I heard that Leica lenses don't focus right on that camera!?

Really what would be nice, would be a manual focus G camera. Surely that is not beyond the capability of Kyocera.

BTW, I saw some pics of a Japanese photog in Afghanistan post 911 with a G camera. But from my understanding most pros who want a rangefinder do not use a G. It seems there would be a market among those who now use Leicas if Kyocera got it right.

 

[jdos2]

The personal photographer of the President of Portugal uses a G2.

They are around. The optics are just too good, methinks.

I do miss mine.

I had similar feelings about the Hexar RF. I actually owned one and found the finder irritatingly wide, and that focus was different depending on where I had my eye in a very exacting and demanding way that the Leicas and Kievs aren't (HA! I did it! Used Leica and Kievs in a comparison!)

 

[SolaresLarrave]

Robert, the line you quoted from my previous post wasn't addressed to you, but to Claude. Like you, I'd never think of selling my G1; I'm very happy with it, and I think it's an excellent tool. It's the only camera I'd dare take to a beach, because it's the only one whose body can withstand sand in the wind.

 

[Sonnar Brian]

I did a little web-surfing on the Contax G mount hoping to see some shots of the mount. I found some real discussion over focus accuracy, especially with the 90mm lens. Several users sent the camera back to have it adjusted. One commented on a consistent underfocus, akin to what a manual RF user would experience. The difference is the G1/G2 has to be sent back to the factory to perform the service that is usually accomplished with the simple turn of a screw on a manual focus camera.

BTW, my Contax lenses focus on MY Nikon S2! (Of course I disassembled it and changed the film-to-flange distance).

Of all of them, I admire this description the most. This Japanese writer has a very good sense of humor, and must love his camera.

Takenouchi's test of the G1/G2 with the 90mm Sonnar

 

[NoTx]

BTW, my Contax lenses focus on MY Nikon S2! (Of course I disassembled it and changed the film-to-flange distance).

How did you do that? Will all the lenses focus? Is it coupled? Is the mount in need of large changes? Is it the old contax distance?

You may have just solved the problem people are wanting to solve

 

[Sonnar Brian]

Robert,
I am talking about the original Contax lenses from the 30's through the '50s working on my 1955 Nikon S2 Rangefinder; I wish Contax had stuck to that mount for the new lenses!

From what I can tell of the G-Series lenses, they do not have a "mechanical cam" to relay distance to the camera body, but must use some sort of electrical "shaft encoder" or other electronic means to determine distance. I do not think an easy RF-coupled adapter could be made with the "Contax G" mounts as a lot of electro-mechanical work would be required to go from a mechanical RF cam to the electrical contacts of the G lens. I doubt that could be done, at least economically. You would probably need a precision stepper-motor going through reduction gears to drive the manual RF, convert to distance electronically, and relay that to the lens.

The original incompatibility with the Nikon "S-Mount" and the "Contax-Mount" was that the Nikon's used the 51.6mm Focal length "normal" and the Contax used the 52.3mm "normal". The result was that the Contax lens would focus behind the distance as indicated by a properly calibrated Nikon RF. The 52.3mm lens was closer to the film than it "should" have been. The difference became a real problem at 85mm and 135mm. I took the lens mount off of the S2; mounted a 50mm F1.5 Zeiss-Opton Sonnar, set up a target at 8'; set the distance scale to 8'; then used shims to position the lens mount so that the image on a taped-on film strip would be in focus using a magnifier loupe. It took about 2 hours total. The focus is accurate with a 135mm F3.5; the "acid test". The RF coupling between the Nikon and Contax mount is identical. Of course the S2 gives a 1x finder, is very quiet, and is a well made all-mechanical camera that will cost less than the G2!