TenEleven
Well-known
According to Thiele this should indeed be a Contax Sonnar out of a batch of 2000.
The batch and this lens was finished in late 1942. And I have seen plenty of lenses with spotty coating in that period. I guess supply constraints/labor shortages/etc. were a real issue.
I have had lenses where the "flag" part was a bit too wide and it would not mount on all cameras easily, but I never have seen such a lens where the mount is off entirely. It reminds me a bit of my "Zorky" branded Zonnar Kransogorsky which is also rigid and finished a bit crudely, but mounts. Maybe Brian knows something?
The mounting ring to make the lens into a "rigid" one has been made by Zeiss as early as the 1.4million Sonnars. The good news for you is that you can most likely re-use this mounting adapter ring to "rigidize" another f/2 collapsible Sonnar if you have a shell left over. Or give this one a new lease on life, I guess.
Räuber
Established
@lukx Interesting find. I have a similiar one right next to yours:
Ebay 2.709,855
It has the typical front of a collapsible f2 Sonnar of 1942 but the mount of a post war East German CZJ Sonnar. Indicator is the black arrow as aperture mark. Interestingly the lock pin is a red painted plate that was never used by CZJ on the complete silver mounted post-war Sonnars.
Looking closely at yours the mounting part seem to be donated from a Contax Jupiter-8. The red dot as aperture mark is an indicator as Zeiss never used red dots for Sonnar lenses.
Both lenses are no authentic Zeiss Sonnars. They where reassembled later with spare parts from other Sonnar / Jupiter lenses. Valid lenses from the same batch:
Ebay 2.709,855
It has the typical front of a collapsible f2 Sonnar of 1942 but the mount of a post war East German CZJ Sonnar. Indicator is the black arrow as aperture mark. Interestingly the lock pin is a red painted plate that was never used by CZJ on the complete silver mounted post-war Sonnars.
Looking closely at yours the mounting part seem to be donated from a Contax Jupiter-8. The red dot as aperture mark is an indicator as Zeiss never used red dots for Sonnar lenses.
Both lenses are no authentic Zeiss Sonnars. They where reassembled later with spare parts from other Sonnar / Jupiter lenses. Valid lenses from the same batch:
das
Well-known
Wasn't the original 105mm f/2.5 Nikon SLR lens a Sonnar type? Maybe Sonnar derivative 50mm lenses won't work on SLRs, but I think telephoto variants can.
boojum
Mentor
Räuber
Established
Did someone investigate the origin of those LTM 5cm 1.5 Sonnar lenses with the aperture dot indicator? I'm talking about those LTM copies that look like a regular CZJ Sonnar but have a red dot as aperture mark. CZJ used a black line as aperture mark for their LTM 5cm 1.5 Sonnar.
Here is an example at Ebay.
Here is another example.
What strikes me is the quality of those non official Sonnar lenses. It almost looks like an authentic CZJ LTM Sonnar. Most of the time those lenses are in a very nice state with shining chrome body. But there are some interesting differences to the CZJ LTM Sonnar.
I would really want to know who build those Sonnar lenses. Are they 100% fake? Did this CZJ or some former CZJ employees?
Here is an example at Ebay.
Here is another example.
What strikes me is the quality of those non official Sonnar lenses. It almost looks like an authentic CZJ LTM Sonnar. Most of the time those lenses are in a very nice state with shining chrome body. But there are some interesting differences to the CZJ LTM Sonnar.
- red dot as aperture mark (instead black line)
- all number use a dot instead of a comma (,) for example 1.5 (instead 1,5)
I would really want to know who build those Sonnar lenses. Are they 100% fake? Did this CZJ or some former CZJ employees?
I call these Transition lenses, Chris - owner of Skyllaney calls them Coburg lenses.
I believe these were made after the war, in Germany- using what was left after the war. They are irregular production. Often they lack the internal serial numbers of the focus mount. I've seen them without a distance scale. I have one that required the middle triplet be changed as the original was not finished- the front surface was not properly polished. Not counterfeit- the product of one-off manufacture and assembly.
I believe these were made after the war, in Germany- using what was left after the war. They are irregular production. Often they lack the internal serial numbers of the focus mount. I've seen them without a distance scale. I have one that required the middle triplet be changed as the original was not finished- the front surface was not properly polished. Not counterfeit- the product of one-off manufacture and assembly.
Räuber
Established
Most I have seen online look pretty nice. They do not look like assembled from spare parts at all. Some have silver filter rims others black filter rims. They seem to be more common than the authentic CZJ LTM Sonnars.
What I call transition lenses- 2859291 does not have a Distance scale. Some were misassembled. One required the RF Cam to be polished down. The owner bought all of these pre-Ebay, I looked at them almost 20 years ago.
Räuber
Established
I checked the serials... 3 of them found their way to Ebay in the last 2 years. 
2.858.462 is still online.
2.858.462 is still online.
First set- from one of the "Irregular Sonnars.
This one is from a regular production, 272xxxx Sonnar.
This gives an idea of how many Wartime LTM Sonnars were actually manufactured.
This one is from a regular production, 272xxxx Sonnar.
This gives an idea of how many Wartime LTM Sonnars were actually manufactured.
As I suspect, this means one thing.I checked the serials... 3 of them found their way to Ebay in the last 2 years.
2.858.462 is still online.
View attachment 4826618
View attachment 4826619
Jerry Clifford Laderberg - View Obituary & Service Information
Share Memories and Support the Family.
www.jeffersonfuneralchapel.com
Jerry used to go to the camera shows. I've bought from him for over 40 years. At one show- asked me to look at these. I bartered for some LTM lenses that were good for parts, rather than accept money.
I tested all of the lenses, made four of the five focus properly at all distances. The odd-ball 255x has a focal length longer than 52.4mm, probably one of the 5.8cm F1.5 Sonnars in a one-off mount.
Räuber
Established
Sorry to hear this about your friend, Brian.
I suspect that the 255x is a 5.8cm Sonnar too. The barrel is to long for a 5cm Sonnar.
I suspect that the 255x is a 5.8cm Sonnar too. The barrel is to long for a 5cm Sonnar.
Leica TM Carl Zeiss Jena Sonnar 5cm f1.5 FAST lens. Leica IIIa, Leica IIIc, IIIF | eBay
Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for Leica TM Carl Zeiss Jena Sonnar 5cm f1.5 FAST lens. Leica IIIa, Leica IIIc, IIIF at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!
www.ebay.com
The one with no distance scale.
and the one with distance scale-
Carl Zeiss Jena Sonnar 5cm f1.5 FAST lens. Leica M39 TM. Leica IIIf, Leica IIIg | eBay
Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for Carl Zeiss Jena Sonnar 5cm f1.5 FAST lens. Leica M39 TM. Leica IIIf, Leica IIIg at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!
www.ebay.com
All needed work. Also had old marks from Fungus, which cleaned up well.
One of my conversions showed up on Ebay-
Zeiss 5cm f1.5 Sonnar Lens | eBay
Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for Zeiss 5cm f1.5 Sonnar Lens at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!
www.ebay.com
But makes me appreciate my collection of Sonnars even more.
SUPER RARE CARL ZEISS SONNAR T 5cm F1.5 War Lens In Original Leica M39 Mount | eBay
Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for SUPER RARE CARL ZEISS SONNAR T 5cm F1.5 War Lens In Original Leica M39 Mount at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!
www.ebay.com
This one is irregular production- notice the rear fixture, the retaining ring for the rear triplet has spanner slots. The fixture itself does not have spanner slots cut into it, as do regular production lenses. The finger grips on the aperture ring have too many grooves, and is wider than regular production lenses.
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TenEleven
Well-known
To add to what Brian already covered, in my experience these irregular production lenses are originals - as in made from original parts that workers, post war, scavenged out of a bin of rejects or not yet assembled lenses.
Quality wise I can echo what Brian already said - some work right out of the box, some need work. The construction always has a one-off quality about it. Some are very shoddily put together, some others are exceptionally well made beating out even their regular production brothers.
In respect to their optical performance we have a similar picture (heh) - some of these lenses have a very sub-par performance, I have also had lenses that had the inner or rear triplet optically de-centered meaning that one side would come into focus sooner than the other. (I know this was an optical issue because re-mounting into a known-good shell and optical block did not resolve it.) some others however - are among the very very best Sonnars I own.
But unlike the regular production lenses, which are all at the very least "decent" when in working condition, what you get is a total gamble.
Quality wise I can echo what Brian already said - some work right out of the box, some need work. The construction always has a one-off quality about it. Some are very shoddily put together, some others are exceptionally well made beating out even their regular production brothers.
In respect to their optical performance we have a similar picture (heh) - some of these lenses have a very sub-par performance, I have also had lenses that had the inner or rear triplet optically de-centered meaning that one side would come into focus sooner than the other. (I know this was an optical issue because re-mounting into a known-good shell and optical block did not resolve it.) some others however - are among the very very best Sonnars I own.
But unlike the regular production lenses, which are all at the very least "decent" when in working condition, what you get is a total gamble.
furcafe
Mentor
. . .
Jerry Clifford Laderberg - View Obituary & Service Information
Share Memories and Support the Family.www.jeffersonfuneralchapel.com
Jerry used to go to the camera shows. I've bought from him for over 40 years. At one show- asked me to look at these. I bartered for some LTM lenses that were good for parts, rather than accept money.
. . .
Small world. I often worked w/Jerry in our respective gov't day jobs before I really got into photography (around the time he was close to retirement).
Räuber
Established
This M39 Sonnar 1.5 might be of interest to some technician here. If you look closely you might notice that the focus ring turns the wrong way. It is the first time I see one that focuses counterclockwise. It might be of interest to Leica users that are used to this focus direction too.
dexdog
Mentor
Rauber, that is an odd one all right. The focus mount looks different than any other M39 Sonnar that I have seen,and the fact that it focuses "backward" makes it even more odd.. Makes me wonder if someone screwed a 272 Sonnar optical block into a custom/bespoke/one-off mount. Part of a batch of 3000 lenses made in 1943, in part M39
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I've seen several one-offs, Sonnar lenses in custom made focusing mounts.
I know some machine shops that make custom optical fixtures- used them for decades, would be able to produce the single-helical custom focus mounts like these.
I know some machine shops that make custom optical fixtures- used them for decades, would be able to produce the single-helical custom focus mounts like these.