Carl Zeiss LTM Finally! ~ I bought a "wartime" 1943 CZJ Sonnar T f1.5/50 in LTM

Carl Zeiss M39 lenses
I recently missed a 5cm f1.5 Sonnar in J3 LTM mount that was sold on a russian rangefinder forum for $250'ish with adapter. It looked like a Brian's conversion. I can't believe this..
 
ferider said:
A cool kit :) I would leave the leather away though, if I were you.
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Thanks Roland.

I acquired the leather lens pouch in the same week I found the lens. It was too nice and too cheap to pass up on. The 135/4.0 is in a modern case when not in use, but the pouch is a nice accessory to include in shots like these.
 
Off-topic: Any leather-only pouch is a fungus-inducer by nature. At least use a cloth-lined leather pouch, and even better a synthetic one. Also, get the lens out into the open light regularly. Storing in a damp and dark environment is like invitating fungus to the lubricants and the lens coatings!

Topic: Back on track!
 
Marc told me they made something like ca. 200 of these during WW2 ~ That's it, it's the rarest of the Sonnar T formula lenses in LTM
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I have a 135/4 Sonnar in Contax mount. Isn't the optical formula the same as this lens? I can use an Amedeo adapter with it and then us the lens on an M.
 
Tom,

my M3 is not a repaint, it is the real mccoy. I scrounged it up from spare parts for the Black Paint M3. I'm particularly happy with the original spare part top plate. It is unengraved and was never mounted to a camera before I bought it from a German seller on eBay. Cost me a kidney ;)
Last week I substituted the DIY painted shutter dial and accessory shoe with parts bought from LeicaParts thru eBay. Only need to find an early-style and right model rewind knob in BP now, and two retaining rings for the flash connectors. The rewind lever and release button shroud are DIY paint as well, but they are okay with me.
Finding the correct short DS film lever in BP was time consuming as well but once I found it, it wasn't that expensive.

Kevins Cameras has a BP M3 top and bottom plate set for sale, which is as expensive as the whole of parts I bought for my M3 and his set is not an original set (paint smoothness is far less).
I think I did well.

I like the GripTac but I've been on an 'authenticity' trip lately... Planning to send the camera over to CCR Luton for an RF overhaul and refitting of original vulcanite this winter, possibly next spring.

As a shocker to collectors and fondlers: this is my only Leica M, my main shooter and someday it will look like Jim Marshalls M4 :eek:

Regarding the 135/4.0 Sonnar: if the weather is any better tomorrow I will shoot a roll of B&W and develop Sunday night. I sure hope results will be as nice as looks and handling!
 
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Hi, after reading 14 pages of this topic i'm a little bit confused about the different models, barrel and coating of the Zeiss Sonnar lens...maybe it's me but i have clear ideas about the Canon, Nikon and of course Leica lens, but every time i try to understand (and of course "search to buy") a zeiss lens for my Leicas...i lost my mind :eek:.
Is there anyone so kind to write me a little list of how may Sonnar 50\1.5 are been produced, in which mount and which differences in lens and coating? Of course not the "sonnar type" from others (i already have a Serenar 50\1.5 and a Nikkor 50\1,4) but only the original Zeiss are the problem for me...maybe because i have never used a contax or an Ikon so i'm never been into Contax mount...

Looking at the price on "crazypricesBay" i have understand as always that the LTM versions of these lens are not cheap as the original Contax mount version so i was thinking to buy another Amedeo adapter (i already have the Nikon adapter) to put a Contax version on my Ms...but i would like to understand something more about the different versions before i buy one..

Thanks anyway
 
There were about 5000 Wartime Sonnars made in Leica mount. Most were made for wartime use, and finding a good one is difficult.

Most Carl Zeiss Jena 5cm F1.5's made before the war are uncoated.

After the war, Carl Zeiss Jena came out with a different version of the 5cm F1.5 "T" and Carl Zeiss Opton came out with their own version of the 50/1.5. Both are mechanically different and optically different from the wartime and pre-war lenses. Sometime into their production, the "Carl Zeiss Opton" name was changed to "Carl Zeiss".

The mechanics of the post-war Carl Zeiss Jena 5cm F1.5 may interfere with its use on an Adapter with some cameras. The construction of the rear module causes problems with the RF pickup wheel of the camera.

I tend to be a "Sonnar Fanatic", look through this forum for some images and ideas.

http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=155

My favorite Sonnar is a pre-war lens mounted into a focus mount from the J-3.
 
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Great...with just few words you have clarified my knowledge on these lens, thanks :D.
I love the look of my Summarit and if i remember well he is a "Sonnar Type" but i notice a better resolution on the pictures of this topic taken with an original zeiss sonnar, less flare and a better rendition of the colors...this is the reason why i'm looking to one of them. I think you will suggest me to find a war-time version of the lens, but how can i recognize them? with serial numbers or differences in the barrel? i have seen on eBay some *T version and a lot of other versions (only for contax mount in these weeks) but what i have to look for to understand which version is? Of course the color of the coating will help to unerstand the period, anything else?

Still thanks for this "Sonnar Tutorial" :p
 
The best of the wartime lenses start with "272" in the serial number.
see here for a teardown of my own 272 lens:

http://www.ziforums.com/showthread.php?t=120

Late Wartime:

http://www.ziforums.com/showthread.php?t=143&highlight=sonnar

One built in Russia from German Parts:

http://www.ziforums.com/showthread.php?t=306


Bizarre, made from parts, custom finished, not fully complete:
http://www.ziforums.com/showthread.php?t=224

And how to make your own pre-war lens into LTM:

http://www.ziforums.com/showthread.php?t=360&highlight=sonnar

You can certainly handle this, after seeing that Canon lens.
 
For shooting with the classic Sonnar look, if one can find a Canon 50/1.5 for a reasonable price, it's a great choice as Tom says. I bought one with perfect glass a while back for $180, so they do exist...although it may take almost as long to find one in that price range as it will be to find a nice 'confirmed' wartime Sonnar LTM!

If collecting isn't the focus, then I highly recommend picking up a Contax mount Sonnar and getting an Amedeo adapter. There are plenty of very reasonably priced Zeiss 50/1.5s and 50/2s out there in excellent shape. Nikon S-mount Sonnar clones can also be adapted, but these lenses go for more $$.
 
wow...so may information in just few hours, i think i love this forum and most of all...the people here. So gentle and helpful :)

@LeicaTom
As i wrote i was thinking to a Summarit as a "Sonnar Type" because i was convinced that a Xenon was a Sonnar inside...but i was wrong :p so maybe this is the reason why i have seen so much differences between the pictures on the forum with the Sonnar and the mine with the Summarit...nice, there is never too much to knows about lens of '900.
Anyway i have tried few times to buy a Canon 50\1.5 because i knew it was a Sonnar type, but everythime the price are gone crazy...not crazy as the original Sonnar in LTM but anyway to high for me...maybe i have to found it in place where there is no "hype" about the Japanese Sonnar.

@Brian
thanks for the links most of them are really useful, and some are really out of my possibility...i think i'm not ready yet to open a RF lens to hack an old Sonnar in the Barrell of a J-3...maybe in the future, at the moment i'm cleaning some of my reflex lens, but the cheapest one...just to be shure that i'm not going to destroy a 50\1.2

@Digitalintrigue
Nice to ear that you found a cheap Canon 50\1.5, i have no hurry so i can search the one with a good price and most of all with good glass, i'm not a collector also if i have a huge number of lens in my house, i like to use them all, every situation, every film and every feeling i have daily need a different lens...hahaha...or maybe this is the excuse i use to tell to myself to justify a number so high of lens in my house :D
However i was thinking the possibility to buy a Contax lens and put it on Amedeo Adapter, but i was a little bit confused about which one i have to buy to be shure to have the classic sonnar look...maybe i pre-war or war-time lens i'm still learning the differences about these lens...also thanks to you.

I have a Nikkor S.C 50\1.4 i use with the Amedeo Adapter, it's a great lens and i love the rendering but to my eyes it look really different from the sonnar look i have seen on most pictures here...maybe like LeicaTom said, with fast lens the beauty it's always in the Eye of the beholder :p

Emiliano
 
The Nikkor 5cm F1.4 is optimized for close-up, wide-open work and the "bokeh" is more harsh than the Canon and Zeiss Sonnar formula lenses.

On the "285 lens", mine has all matching serial numbers for the optics module and the three portions of the helical. It also has the inner set screws for holding in the rear group and name ring. These features disappeared on the lenses finished in Russia. The construcion of my 285 series lens is indistinguishable from the 272 lens, with the exception of the black nose vs chrome nose.
 
If we could ever combine all the knowledge on the Sonnars (production and shooting characteristics) that is available in a Blurb book, I would buy it instantly. And before that, happily submit pictures from and with my lens to put in it!

Scanning shots from my 135/4.0 Sonnar T as we speak, will upload them later this evening to the thread I started on this lens.
 
I have a lot of Sonnars. Sonnar Fanatic. 1935 5cm F1.5 with a coated front element, thought was aftermarket until I saw one just like it very close in SN. Maybe a Test run? Uncoated 5cm f1.5, ~1937, Coated 5cm F1.5 ~1939, the 272 Wartime, 285 Wartime, 286 "after wartime with some wartime parts", ZK Sonnar that used leftover German parts, post-war Jena, Zeiss-Opton, Carl Zeiss. All 50/1.5's. And the KMZ J-3's with German glass. They are all good.
 
I'm still looking for a sonnar 50\1.5 in LTM but it seems the prices are going too high for me, also because they are always in bad condition when you find the Contax version almost mint and cheaper. I think i will buy one in contax mount and another Amedeo Adapter for them...as i made for nikon lens.

When i will have one i will post something...maybe also when i will have a Scanner for Negatives :D

Emiliano
 
I'm still looking for a prewar uncoated 50/2 Sonnar in CRF mount for transplant into a Jupiter 8 shell - if anyone sees an inexpensive one, please let me know.
 
I saw that one, and thought that it looked pretty beat-up. Looks like the lens used to have fungus issues, and while it has been cleaned, the rear element appears to be damaged. Not sure how the damage would affect pictures. Also, the patched hole for the grub screw and the other strange looking peg/replacement screw would be an issue for me. Makes me think that this lens may have been seriously butchered, and whether it could be fixed by someone who had the requisite skills.

Thiele's book of CZJ lenses gives production date of 12/4/1945.
 
Tom,

I gotta say, the CZJ Sonnars indeed are something else. Over time, I have owned several Jupiter-3 lenses and they always had focus shift to some extent. But not the CZJ Sonnar I own. It is always spot on, no matter what aperture. If wide open the lens is softer, but focus does not shift. Same with a 1952 Jupiter-3 I owned. Considering age, that must have had a Zeiss optical module fitted as well. I guess these lenses already were shimmed to use on Leica LTM, while the later Jupiters were shimmed for the Contax-derived lens register :confused:

For the IIIc I acquired a lyre-shaped VIOOH from a fellow RFF member. With the Sonnars and the 1939 Elmar 90/4.0 I bought from you, it will be an era-correct set (save for the GripTac, but that stuff is just so good I could not pass).

If YY should take until X-mas or even New Years, I don't mind. He does splendid work after all. As my mum uses to say: 'all good things come slow' :D
 
Sounds like a nice set already, Johan.

My IIIa, VIDOM and 90mm Elmar make a nice 1937-dated set

I'm casually looking for a Sonnar, though my J-3 does it's job well enough (with a little back focus) for now.


If you still want a chance to shoot some Living History; This Sunday (nov 28th) there's another training day at Fort Vechten near Utrecht. My Leica I + J-3 and I will be there in WW2 Russian Kit. I hope there will be snow! :)
 
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