Thardy
Mentor
I joined UPENN Medical Ctr in July 1994, and was promptly greeted with news of the murder of an undergrad student. That sort of changed my perception of Philly. I had just left NYC area and thought I was going to a better place.
kbg32
neo-romanticist
Not camera related, but I surprised myself today as I confronted a man who shoved my arm off the handrail on the subway and called me an a------le. He was a head taller then me and a good 25-30lbs. heavier. He felt that I was in his way, the train was packed, and pushed me into my wife who was just about to take a seat. I never got in anyone's face before as I did today. I am 5' 8" and 147lbs.. Man was I pissed. Stand up for what you believe, but be ready to accept any consequences. I had my Leica with me and was prepared to use it.
goamules
Well-known
Swinging cameras with deadly intent sounds a little farcical. We're talking in the US, not Mogodishu or Pakistan right? And you're not taking about skulking in an alley behind a crack house at 2AM right? So a few thoughts for those not in the heavy breathing set:
- I keep my camera under my coat and my coat zipped in uncertain areas. Places like border crossings where photography is disallowed, walking past the corner market with 8 jeering out of work guys downing 40s, etc. On busy sidewalks, restaurants, and parks with moms and kids, it can be out in the open.
- Keep moving in areas that seem risky. Unzip you camera, snap a shot, smile, then walk to another area that is less risky. Don't walk into a rough bar in a poor Mexican district and sit down for a long spell of drinking beer and photographing the locals.
- Don't spend time in the most risky areas. What is your goal? To get in and get the shot without getting robbed or killed? I'd rather take pictures of the pretty moms in the parks....
I've visited 20 countries including some rough ones when I was in the Navy and we headed STRAIGHT to the worse districts. The above are based on my actual experience, and applies to America too. You go looking for trouble, you will find it.
- I keep my camera under my coat and my coat zipped in uncertain areas. Places like border crossings where photography is disallowed, walking past the corner market with 8 jeering out of work guys downing 40s, etc. On busy sidewalks, restaurants, and parks with moms and kids, it can be out in the open.
- Keep moving in areas that seem risky. Unzip you camera, snap a shot, smile, then walk to another area that is less risky. Don't walk into a rough bar in a poor Mexican district and sit down for a long spell of drinking beer and photographing the locals.
- Don't spend time in the most risky areas. What is your goal? To get in and get the shot without getting robbed or killed? I'd rather take pictures of the pretty moms in the parks....
I've visited 20 countries including some rough ones when I was in the Navy and we headed STRAIGHT to the worse districts. The above are based on my actual experience, and applies to America too. You go looking for trouble, you will find it.
icebear
Mentor
Well done, congrats. Did he respond in a kind of civilized way?
zauhar
Mentor
I joined UPENN Medical Ctr in July 1994, and was promptly greeted with news of the murder of an undergrad student. That sort of changed my perception of Philly. I had just left NYC area and thought I was going to a better place.
Well, just like I said. (Was it the kid in Clark Park? He was from my school.)
There is an interesting psychology in play - someone learns of a murder in their neighborhood. They move to the suburbs so they can be "safe". Something bad happens in their new hood (how about a home invasion? Thugs have started targeting business people in the burbs.) Then they move where ? The exurbs? How about a cabin in the woods? Take it from someone who has lived in rural areas, there are LOTS of unsavory folks who want to live "wild in nature", in some sort of Lord of the Flies fantasy (where they of course are not Piggy).
People need to make a stand. If you really don't like a place, then don't live there. If you like your neighborhood, then do what you need to stay, up to an including carrying your piece along with your heavy Leica.
Not an ideal solution , but I don't know what is.
Randy
P.S. My oldest is making the move to NYC for school next year, not a happy moment for the old man here. ;-(
back alley
IMAGES
i sometimes carry only a body with lens attached. i use a long, very long neck strap...66 inches long worn over my shoulder and camera resting on my opposite hip.
most of the time the camera is in my hand down by my side or up a bit in front...most folks seem not to notice it...i'm ready to shoot or hit someone with it...growing up in nyc i found that conversation helped more than aggression but being at the ready to defend myself likely stopped 99% of any untoward behaviour being directed at me.
being big helps.
most of the time the camera is in my hand down by my side or up a bit in front...most folks seem not to notice it...i'm ready to shoot or hit someone with it...growing up in nyc i found that conversation helped more than aggression but being at the ready to defend myself likely stopped 99% of any untoward behaviour being directed at me.
being big helps.
taskoni
Well-known
Say hello to my little friend
back alley
IMAGES
the biggest problem with weapons is if/when they are taken from you and used on you...
hepcat
Former PH, USN
Wow... what an interesting topic.
Everyone, please step back for a second and take a deep breath.
My 35 years in law enforcement, much of that on the street, gives me a different perspective. The media brings every major crime, regardless of its location, into your livingroom and makes it personal. Hearing that over and over and over makes the world appear to be a much more dangerous place than it really is. A little common sense, and situational awareness will do much to keep you safe anywhere in the world that you choose to go.
Just because there are "x" number of murders in a particular city, state, or country doesn't mean that just because you're walking through you're likely to be a murder, robbery, or assault victim and that's true even carrying an expensive camera in a violence-prone neighborhood.
Generally speaking, outside of countries currently considered 'war zones' or those fighting not to be controlled by drug cartels, your lifestyle is what makes you a likely murder victim. Most murder victims continue to be gang members or associates involved in illegal activity. Frankly, you're significantly more likely to be murdered by your spouse, a friend, or an acquaintance. That's how most homicide investigations are solved... the victim knows the suspect. Last, assaults and street robberies do occur, but they so infrequently result in a murder compared to gang and acquaintance murders that they're almost statistically insignificant.
Unlike thirty years ago, cameras have no value on the street any more as proceeds of robbery, and that especially applies to Leicas. No street thug is going to know how to unload one for cash in a world where every one has a cell phone camera.
Last, remember that if you don't conduct yourself like a victim, likely any potential predator will pass on you and move on to someone who appears less interested in potentially doing them harm. My mantra for years has been this version of the twenty-third Psalm... "Yea though I walk through the vally of death, I shall fear no evil... for I AM the meanest SOB in the valley." If you don't ACT like a victim, likely you won't BE a victim regardless of where you go.
Everyone, please step back for a second and take a deep breath.
My 35 years in law enforcement, much of that on the street, gives me a different perspective. The media brings every major crime, regardless of its location, into your livingroom and makes it personal. Hearing that over and over and over makes the world appear to be a much more dangerous place than it really is. A little common sense, and situational awareness will do much to keep you safe anywhere in the world that you choose to go.
Just because there are "x" number of murders in a particular city, state, or country doesn't mean that just because you're walking through you're likely to be a murder, robbery, or assault victim and that's true even carrying an expensive camera in a violence-prone neighborhood.
Generally speaking, outside of countries currently considered 'war zones' or those fighting not to be controlled by drug cartels, your lifestyle is what makes you a likely murder victim. Most murder victims continue to be gang members or associates involved in illegal activity. Frankly, you're significantly more likely to be murdered by your spouse, a friend, or an acquaintance. That's how most homicide investigations are solved... the victim knows the suspect. Last, assaults and street robberies do occur, but they so infrequently result in a murder compared to gang and acquaintance murders that they're almost statistically insignificant.
Unlike thirty years ago, cameras have no value on the street any more as proceeds of robbery, and that especially applies to Leicas. No street thug is going to know how to unload one for cash in a world where every one has a cell phone camera.
Last, remember that if you don't conduct yourself like a victim, likely any potential predator will pass on you and move on to someone who appears less interested in potentially doing them harm. My mantra for years has been this version of the twenty-third Psalm... "Yea though I walk through the vally of death, I shall fear no evil... for I AM the meanest SOB in the valley." If you don't ACT like a victim, likely you won't BE a victim regardless of where you go.
btgc
Mentor
Read somewhere about master of martian arts. He was asked how he would act in dark alley, seeing approaching strangers with bad intents. "I would do my best to not appear there" master replied. Sure, life isn't as simple but there's wisdom.
kokoshawnuff
Alex
Full insurance coverage cures all anxieties with my expensive possitions typically with me at any given time (an M with at least one M lens, and a Rolex). I would hate to have to hand over something I worked hard to own to someone who didn't work for it, but better that than than getting shot or stabbed.
Coverage with State Farm personal articals for my camera gear is about $10 per year for every $1000 covered...it's worth it, if for nothing else, than to not have to worry (about my possesions) wherever I am.
Coverage with State Farm personal articals for my camera gear is about $10 per year for every $1000 covered...it's worth it, if for nothing else, than to not have to worry (about my possesions) wherever I am.
jky
Well-known
...that would bite!
Imagine getting beat up with your own camera...
Then after getting bloodied, the assailant takes a photo of you.... with his PHONE... then posts it on Instagram!
Salt to the wounds.
Seriously though, I'll usually have a camera in my hand and I try to be well aware of my surroundings. That's about it.
Peter_Jones
Well-known
Just talk into your sleeve : "Stand down - this is not, I repeat not the target"
brennanphotoguy
Well-known
Like hepcat said, don't go in looking like a victim or an easy target. Someone said something about taking a weapon from you, I would love for someone to try and take a baton from me before I got one good crack on the head or better yet my S&W that stays concealed on my hip in a crossbreed holster.
icebear
Mentor
ROFL, I will never understand people advertising for everybody in half a mile radius what gear they are sporting around
.semilog
curmudgeonly optimist
Yes. Starting in high school I carried my cameras everywhere, and still do. Situational awareness and a good sense of humor are everything. I generally don't use camera bags. I usually use small daypacks with the gear stored in wraps. Current favorite is one of these. One or two bodies, maybe two lenses, some film or extra batteries, and cleaning supplies. Light and fast.
Only camera I've ever had stolen was out of my frakking office in a university medical research building.
semilog
curmudgeonly optimist
Al Patterson
Ferroequinologist
Well, I was mugged once near the Gallery, so one never knows where bad stuff might happen...
zauhar
Mentor
Very sensible and wise words . As I tell my kids, in ANY neighborhood 99 out of 100 people are no threat to you, and in ANY neighborhood there is 1 person who can do you harm.
Randy