shyoon
Well-known
Have you seen the classifieds here on RFF? People are selling film cameras everyday. It must mean that they hate film.
Silliness aside, people have different tastes and needs. If one camera doesn't work for them, it doesn't mean the whole format is rubbish. Just means that you didn't likethe camera.
Silliness aside, people have different tastes and needs. If one camera doesn't work for them, it doesn't mean the whole format is rubbish. Just means that you didn't likethe camera.
nobbylon
Mentor
I've had my D700 for nearly 2 years and they are actually more expensive now than when I bought. With a dk17m eyepiece the viewfinder is huge. I've tried using my manual focus lenses with it but after getting a 24-70 2.8 it's a waste of effort. Spot on focus every time and performance that matches the primes. As for using other manufacture lenses, why bother. With the Nikkors you get the full functionality of the camera without faffing with adapters and stop down metering etc. It's an old and often re used statement that a D700 and D3 are still way ahead in IQ compared with most.
True milestone cameras. If you don't like it then sell and give someone else the pleasure of it.
Don't get me wrong, I still like using my old school F2's etc and the odd roll with my M2 but for everyday ease of achieving and enjoying photography I'll take the D700 with the 24-70 any day.
True milestone cameras. If you don't like it then sell and give someone else the pleasure of it.
Don't get me wrong, I still like using my old school F2's etc and the odd roll with my M2 but for everyday ease of achieving and enjoying photography I'll take the D700 with the 24-70 any day.
Brian Legge
Mentor
Rangefinder users like cameras that are smaller and quieter in general. The OM series is the closest to a rangefinder. In fact, the cameras were supposedly inspired by the Leicas.
noimmunity
scratch my niche
Fine resume Mr. Hendrix, but, Are You Experienced?
Fine resume Mr. Hendrix, but, Are You Experienced?
I'd figure out what in my shooting needs made me choose the D700 in the first place, then decide what percentage of my needs those occupy, and redistribute resources accordingly based on the new appraisal of my needs acquired through experience. Experience costs money and time. Don't sweat it. And although you can read forums ad nauseum, there's no substitute for figuring out what you like through your own experience.
Let that be a lesson as you contemplate your next system change! I've debated selling some top-shelf RF lenses to get a D700 for a year now, but can't do it, in spite of well-meaning apostles here and there. Objectively speaking, there are just some things that the RF can't do for me which the D700 could do easily. Nevertheless, I would not enjoy carrying the D700 with me, hence I would not actually use it as much as I imagine, plus selling lenses always causes me grief, hence I'm not trading in at this point, just working around the limitations in a different way.
Working with limitations is a good thing, and maybe that will also help your photography in general.
Fine resume Mr. Hendrix, but, Are You Experienced?
I'd figure out what in my shooting needs made me choose the D700 in the first place, then decide what percentage of my needs those occupy, and redistribute resources accordingly based on the new appraisal of my needs acquired through experience. Experience costs money and time. Don't sweat it. And although you can read forums ad nauseum, there's no substitute for figuring out what you like through your own experience.
Let that be a lesson as you contemplate your next system change! I've debated selling some top-shelf RF lenses to get a D700 for a year now, but can't do it, in spite of well-meaning apostles here and there. Objectively speaking, there are just some things that the RF can't do for me which the D700 could do easily. Nevertheless, I would not enjoy carrying the D700 with me, hence I would not actually use it as much as I imagine, plus selling lenses always causes me grief, hence I'm not trading in at this point, just working around the limitations in a different way.
Working with limitations is a good thing, and maybe that will also help your photography in general.
Ruvy
Established
he.he.he.... reminds me so much of myself in any new major thing I buy (and that is after I study it to death)... Its not only regret for the money spend, its being blind for future use and lose of the whole picture that I experience.. I gain it back after a while and eventually become happy with it so my 2cent advice is to let it be with you for a while - you may gain a different tool without taking away the tools you already have.
pixelatedscraps
Well-known
This shouldn't degenerate into one of those film vs digital debates. God know they're exhausting, futile, and ultimately should be found on other less refined forums. I apologise in advance if I have come across as spoiling for a fight.
I guess a better intention to this post would be this (and please answer only if you have, there's no need to speculate why you wouldn't ever trade your DSLR for any other camera):
-What made you switch back from digital to film, and do you have any regrets?
I guess a better intention to this post would be this (and please answer only if you have, there's no need to speculate why you wouldn't ever trade your DSLR for any other camera):
-What made you switch back from digital to film, and do you have any regrets?
Naumoski
Well-known
Get a M9, obviously.
Jamie123
Mentor
So can you please explain again why exactly this isn't a film vs. digital question?? The "what made you switch" question is pretty much the stereotypical film vs. digital question.
Why do you really care about other people's reasons for switching one way or the other? Different people like different things for different reasons. You seem pretty confident about not liking digital so why make all the fuss about it. Just sell your digital gear, get over it and go back to using what you like.
Turtle
Mentor
There is nothing to be explained or broken down here. Digital is completely different to some people. It is to me. I think the point is not to beat yourself up and face the truth of it. Then you can decide what it means and where to go from there.
Digital does virtually nothing for me, but that is not a knock against hte process for others. I do very much enjoy some of the output, but have no inclination to deal with the entire process from the myriad of buttons and camera settings to the ever deepening post processing quagmire. Some people love that stuff. Me? I use computers every day all day. Do I like them? No. Digital photography can bear a greater resemblance to computer tech work than what used to be photography. The former never interested me (I HATE it) so its no surprise I cannot get excited about 500 page PS books, plugins, calibrating monitors etc. I am the way I am and I no longer fight it. Ironically I am about to buy into a digital system for where I need the utility, but I am not doing so because the idea excites me.
Why do you feel there is something wrong with you for being left cold by your D700? Its like being at school and being top of your class in most subjects but not wanting to go into law, medicine, business, research... why should you want these things?
Digital does virtually nothing for me, but that is not a knock against hte process for others. I do very much enjoy some of the output, but have no inclination to deal with the entire process from the myriad of buttons and camera settings to the ever deepening post processing quagmire. Some people love that stuff. Me? I use computers every day all day. Do I like them? No. Digital photography can bear a greater resemblance to computer tech work than what used to be photography. The former never interested me (I HATE it) so its no surprise I cannot get excited about 500 page PS books, plugins, calibrating monitors etc. I am the way I am and I no longer fight it. Ironically I am about to buy into a digital system for where I need the utility, but I am not doing so because the idea excites me.
Why do you feel there is something wrong with you for being left cold by your D700? Its like being at school and being top of your class in most subjects but not wanting to go into law, medicine, business, research... why should you want these things?
Well, if you hate the D700, and you hate Digital, you can either use film or take up drawing. I guess you could find an old Analog Video-Capture camera. But we do not have a forum for Film vs Digital Vs Analog Still Capture.
So Film vs Digital is it.
So Film vs Digital is it.
Arjay
Time Traveller
I recently moved back to film for certain types of pictures. However, I would never want to give up my digital gear. To me, this isn't about film vs. digital, but horses for courses.
The nice thing about film and M-style cameras is their simplicity. You have (more or less) one exposure measurement mode, maybe an AE mode and (most probably) manual focusing. Also, you 'choose your sensor' ahead of time by selecting a certain film (and maybe EI plus developing workflow).
So, the basic operation of a film camera is generally a lot simpler than that of a sophisticated DSLR. That's because in a DSLR, you have a lot of added complexity: Autofocus can be configured to work as one-shot or continuous, it can be configured to work well for fast or slow-moving objects, to work well under low light or to concentrate specifically on faces.
The same applies to 'film choice'. You can preset sensitivity or even how sensitivity is being changed automatically. You can set for tungsten or daylight operation, or even for fluorescent light. Have you ever heard of a film specifically optimized for FL light? You can even determine if you want neutral or vivid colors.
I could go on in this context for quite some time, but what it boils down is that a DSLR is a lot more complex than any film camera we came to love. And thus, DSLRs have a much longer and steeper learning curve than film cameras.
Mind you, if you cared for wet lab processes and the inner workings of film chemistry, or all the tricks people developed to rapidly focus their RF cameras, you might arrive at the same complexity. But to get there, you'd have to include a lot of things you would previously not have considered as being associated with the camera (such as e.g. a lot of filters).
So, take your time, and get to know your wonderful D700 camera and its lenses. Discover the meaning of the various functions, and see what they can do for you. Discover the functions you won't ever need, and stop worrying about their menu branches. Take your pick of functions that support your shooting style and configure those functions into your quick-access user menus. Also, get a grip on digital image editing software.
How can you hate something you don't fully know yet?
PS: I work in a business in which I am at least a decade older than virtually all of my clients. I think that's helpful, because I am forced to learn something new every day - still today. That sort of keeps me alive and ready for new challenges.
The nice thing about film and M-style cameras is their simplicity. You have (more or less) one exposure measurement mode, maybe an AE mode and (most probably) manual focusing. Also, you 'choose your sensor' ahead of time by selecting a certain film (and maybe EI plus developing workflow).
So, the basic operation of a film camera is generally a lot simpler than that of a sophisticated DSLR. That's because in a DSLR, you have a lot of added complexity: Autofocus can be configured to work as one-shot or continuous, it can be configured to work well for fast or slow-moving objects, to work well under low light or to concentrate specifically on faces.
The same applies to 'film choice'. You can preset sensitivity or even how sensitivity is being changed automatically. You can set for tungsten or daylight operation, or even for fluorescent light. Have you ever heard of a film specifically optimized for FL light? You can even determine if you want neutral or vivid colors.
I could go on in this context for quite some time, but what it boils down is that a DSLR is a lot more complex than any film camera we came to love. And thus, DSLRs have a much longer and steeper learning curve than film cameras.
Mind you, if you cared for wet lab processes and the inner workings of film chemistry, or all the tricks people developed to rapidly focus their RF cameras, you might arrive at the same complexity. But to get there, you'd have to include a lot of things you would previously not have considered as being associated with the camera (such as e.g. a lot of filters).
So, take your time, and get to know your wonderful D700 camera and its lenses. Discover the meaning of the various functions, and see what they can do for you. Discover the functions you won't ever need, and stop worrying about their menu branches. Take your pick of functions that support your shooting style and configure those functions into your quick-access user menus. Also, get a grip on digital image editing software.
How can you hate something you don't fully know yet?
PS: I work in a business in which I am at least a decade older than virtually all of my clients. I think that's helpful, because I am forced to learn something new every day - still today. That sort of keeps me alive and ready for new challenges.
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And as far as Digital cameras losing value very quickly, as compared with Laptop computers- Consumer oriented Digital cameras certainly fall in price as fast as Laptops. Professional grade cameras retain value longer, but it is not like professional film cameras retaining value in the past (when film ruled). As soon as the newer Pro cameras come out, the older-generation takes a hit. The refresh rate is not as fast as the P&S cameras.
I bought my M8 in Jan 2010. It was mint, in the box, all packing materials there, under 400 clicks on it, with spare battery, case, some other extras. I bought it at Half what the original owner paid, the original receipt was included. Worked for me. It was originally bought in late 2009. So I can follow PKR's advice and come out ahead.
So in the film vs digital debate: if you do not mind buying a used camera and want bang for the buck: GO DIGITAL!
I bought my M8 in Jan 2010. It was mint, in the box, all packing materials there, under 400 clicks on it, with spare battery, case, some other extras. I bought it at Half what the original owner paid, the original receipt was included. Worked for me. It was originally bought in late 2009. So I can follow PKR's advice and come out ahead.
So in the film vs digital debate: if you do not mind buying a used camera and want bang for the buck: GO DIGITAL!
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Ronald M
Mentor
Buy a manual focus lens, put a Katz Eye screen in the camera, move it to M mode and leave it there. Now it is retro and does not need film. I used mine for years that way.
The AF lenses stayed in the cabinet.
Then I got a D3 for which there is no Katz Eye available so I focused with the dot. Sucks. Got out the array of AF lenses, programed the AF/AL thumb button for AF, turned off the AF from the shutter release and I am bacl to being happy. Sort of like learning to like a automatic transmission.
It is still big and heavy and any Leica is smaller and more portable. I was fondling my 111F and 111C yesterday. Maybe you should have got a D7000 or D3100. Consumer junk I understand, but the pics are nice and the camera small.
Someday you will want to come to the digital table or you will have to do so.
The AF lenses stayed in the cabinet.
Then I got a D3 for which there is no Katz Eye available so I focused with the dot. Sucks. Got out the array of AF lenses, programed the AF/AL thumb button for AF, turned off the AF from the shutter release and I am bacl to being happy. Sort of like learning to like a automatic transmission.
It is still big and heavy and any Leica is smaller and more portable. I was fondling my 111F and 111C yesterday. Maybe you should have got a D7000 or D3100. Consumer junk I understand, but the pics are nice and the camera small.
Someday you will want to come to the digital table or you will have to do so.
Neare
Well-known
I bought a dslr after using my sisters kit for this and that. I used the kit AF lens for a week before I decided autofocus was not for me. I then started using manual focus lenses and it was a bit more enjoyable. 2 months after buying it I knew that there is nothing like film and a mechanical camera for my tastes. Sold it and lost $500 off what I originally paid for it.
I own 1.. really old digital camera now, a p&s. It takes all the shots for the auction sites and nothing else.
Photography is my passion primarily. For all the advantages of digital (not that I actually think digital is advantageous) it doesn't give me nearly as much enjoyment as good old film cameras. Mechanics and creating something physical is so much more rewarding to me. And as it is my passion, there is no cutting corners on enjoyment. Why would I do something I'm not completely happy with?
Also... for everyone who goes about saying film is dead for work purposes. People love the fact that I turn up to a job with film instead of digital. They also love the results.
Honestly I don't feel as if I need an entire memory card of space simply to take a great photo. I hope that as a photographer I can get to a point where I love each and every shot I take, a couple of rolls of film at a time is more than enough.
I own 1.. really old digital camera now, a p&s. It takes all the shots for the auction sites and nothing else.
Photography is my passion primarily. For all the advantages of digital (not that I actually think digital is advantageous) it doesn't give me nearly as much enjoyment as good old film cameras. Mechanics and creating something physical is so much more rewarding to me. And as it is my passion, there is no cutting corners on enjoyment. Why would I do something I'm not completely happy with?
Also... for everyone who goes about saying film is dead for work purposes. People love the fact that I turn up to a job with film instead of digital. They also love the results.
Honestly I don't feel as if I need an entire memory card of space simply to take a great photo. I hope that as a photographer I can get to a point where I love each and every shot I take, a couple of rolls of film at a time is more than enough.
dave lackey
Mentor
Digital... just recently disposed of all of my professional Nikon gear to pay the bills. Don't miss it a bit.
Now, I take the M3 along and shoot what I want when I want and life is sweeter than ever before.:angel:
Now, I take the M3 along and shoot what I want when I want and life is sweeter than ever before.:angel:
well Dave- of course it is! You are talking about the M3, with the best viewfinder/rangefinder ever created in the known course of history. Got to load my last roll of fresh Kodachrome 64 in it. The K25 is not as fresh.
But which lens to use. Thinking Uncoated Sonnar 5cm F1.5, 1935 vintage.
But which lens to use. Thinking Uncoated Sonnar 5cm F1.5, 1935 vintage.
dave lackey
Mentor
Curiously, that is what I just did... it is my last roll of K64 and thought I would use it last weekend in the mountains with the grandsons but managed only to finish one roll of K64 with my old Nikon AF film camera. Now it looks like I may have to wait until Turkey Day to dedicate my last roll to my granddaughters!
I have an old roll of K25 (2002 vintage) and am wondering if it would be worthwhile shooting something, but what?
Lens choice is easy...Summarit or Industar... oh well!:angel:
1948nikon
Established
Adapter
Adapter
Many thanks for the update on that Leitax adapter. I might try one on my 21mm f2.
Adapter
Many thanks for the update on that Leitax adapter. I might try one on my 21mm f2.
dimkasta
Member
The only thing I do not like about my D700 is its size. The M4 was a very nice choice to cure that and fill the spot of my everyday camera.
However, when I want to shoot something "important", I always bring the D700.
Let s say in trips or close friend weddings or whatever, I want to be sure about my photos. Something that the film/lab/chemicals combination cannot offer. I am talking about the "security" that digital preview/trial/error/plus_no_lab offers.
I also like film very much, but I use it either only on photos I do not really care if I lose or not, or in conjunction with digital.
However, when I want to shoot something "important", I always bring the D700.
Let s say in trips or close friend weddings or whatever, I want to be sure about my photos. Something that the film/lab/chemicals combination cannot offer. I am talking about the "security" that digital preview/trial/error/plus_no_lab offers.
I also like film very much, but I use it either only on photos I do not really care if I lose or not, or in conjunction with digital.
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Ti29er
Member
Some pertinent points here, especially as you seem to be young and so your world is laid out before you - yours is a digital future, make no mistake about this.
Why buy a hugely expensive camera in its death throes? Your quoted price that you paid is just plain wrong, plus, and you’d know this from your magazines, the D700 is due to be replaced in March!
Sounds to me like you haven't even begun to do your homework, especially as you describe yourself and photography as "side-profession". Either you are a professional or you are an amateur.
I strongly suggest you man-up and start to get to grips with the camera as I can tell you something, as any ½ decent photographer will confirm, the camera is a means to an end, not the end in itself; ergo any camera, regardless of vintage or format should be a tool to you taking great images.
Can I sell you some double glazing, some underwater basket weaving looms and a dozen skyhooks whilst we’re here?
Why buy a hugely expensive camera in its death throes? Your quoted price that you paid is just plain wrong, plus, and you’d know this from your magazines, the D700 is due to be replaced in March!
Sounds to me like you haven't even begun to do your homework, especially as you describe yourself and photography as "side-profession". Either you are a professional or you are an amateur.
I strongly suggest you man-up and start to get to grips with the camera as I can tell you something, as any ½ decent photographer will confirm, the camera is a means to an end, not the end in itself; ergo any camera, regardless of vintage or format should be a tool to you taking great images.
Can I sell you some double glazing, some underwater basket weaving looms and a dozen skyhooks whilst we’re here?