morback
Martin N. Hinze
How come there are no Sonnar designs for wide angles? Does Sonnar construction prohibit anything wider than 50?
ferider
Mentor
Hi Hacker,
There is a 6cm LTM lens for sale for US 895 here: http://www.brooklyncam.com/inventory/leica.shtml, not mint though.
There is a black, non-coupled 85/2 LTM Sonnar for EUR 790 here:
https://www.leicashop.com/vintage/leica-lenses-for-leica-screw-c-1000_1010.html
Igorcamera had some post WWII aluminum RF-coupled copies for around US 600 or so.
I have never seen the original LTM/coupled chrome and brass one listed anywhere, the one that is shown on cameraquest.com.
The Quinon 50/2 is a Sonnar.
Also, please open the list to Ernostars. The 40/2.8 is an Ernostar. Then maybe you could add the 90/2.8 M-Hexanon and maybe the converted Contax G 90/2.8. And, BTW, the ZM 85/2 (even though called "Sonnar") is a double Gauss design.
I am wondering about the various Komura lenses (85mm and 105), and also about the longer Fujinon lenses.
Best,
Roland.
There is a 6cm LTM lens for sale for US 895 here: http://www.brooklyncam.com/inventory/leica.shtml, not mint though.
There is a black, non-coupled 85/2 LTM Sonnar for EUR 790 here:
https://www.leicashop.com/vintage/leica-lenses-for-leica-screw-c-1000_1010.html
Igorcamera had some post WWII aluminum RF-coupled copies for around US 600 or so.
I have never seen the original LTM/coupled chrome and brass one listed anywhere, the one that is shown on cameraquest.com.
The Quinon 50/2 is a Sonnar.
Also, please open the list to Ernostars. The 40/2.8 is an Ernostar. Then maybe you could add the 90/2.8 M-Hexanon and maybe the converted Contax G 90/2.8. And, BTW, the ZM 85/2 (even though called "Sonnar") is a double Gauss design.
I am wondering about the various Komura lenses (85mm and 105), and also about the longer Fujinon lenses.
Best,
Roland.
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Hacker
黑客
Thanks Roland! I will check out the sites you mentioned.
rxmd
May contain traces of nut
There was one offered for sale here in Tashkent for $2500 back in 2007. It was from a guy who does have a lot of interesting equipment (I bought my Drug from him, got a 1949 Kiev from him as a present, and got my hands on a TSVVS at his place), so I expect the lens to actually exist. The man sometimes has weird ideas about pricing, though, and it's a collector lens anyway, so this is not a serious price estimate, more like advertising the fact that someone has one and is open to offers.
As far as I can see, yes. It requires a relatively short lens register, has limitations on the size of the image circle, and uses a lot of glass already.
More curvature of field, probably. There's a reason why some of the first double Gauss-type lenses were called Planars.
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Hacker
黑客
I think I would love to have pictures of the lenses mentioned. Anyone care to start the ball rolling?
Noserider
Christiaan Phleger
Nikon made a very good Sonnar 35mm focal length for their premium point and shoot, details and diagram at http://imaging.nikon.com/products/imaging/technology/nikkor/n33_e.htm
I have this camera and it is a fine performing lens.
I have this camera and it is a fine performing lens.
rxmd
May contain traces of nut
Interesting! Probably the optical glass available in the 1980s made possible some more extreme uses of the design. Also interesting where they put the aperture.
I wonder if anyone has adapted that lens to LTM yet? Sometimes the Japanese are known to do crazy stuff with their cameras.
OK - Now that I brought up the lens, KMZ's own lens archive, which is in Russian, has a page for the Jupiter 17 with technical data and some pictures. (Since the lens looks very similar to KMZ's own 1950s Jupiter-8 variants, I wonder why no one has bothered to fake them yet.) The technical data are quite similar to the Jupiter-8's; I guess the main reason why they didn't produce it in more than an experimental run was that while it used less glass, it wasn't really much superior, and that it was easier to offset expenditure by cranking up the scale of production of the established lens. If you're interested in some of the details, I can try to translate.
So here's the picture (from that site):
´
EDIT: Apparently KMZ's web designer took the photo from sovietcams.com, where it is shown on an export Zorki.
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Noserider
Christiaan Phleger
Yeah, it is a really crazy design. I didn't know it was a Sonnar when I first got the camera as a beater for my son, but after putting a few B&W rolls thru it I recalled the Nikon site. When forced at a near wide open f-stop, the lens does vingette a bit. Middle F-stops are very sharp, nice bokeh as well. I really recommend keeping an eye out for this point and shoot, it has a really really good lens. I got my copy for 5 dollars and another one for a friend for 1 dollar, which must set the record for the least expensive Sonnar.
Interesting! Probably the optical glass available in the 1980s made possible some more extreme uses of the design. Also interesting where they put the aperture.
I wonder if anyone has adapted that lens to LTM yet? Sometimes the Japanese are known to do crazy stuff with their cameras.
Already been done by MS Optical (no surprises there!).
http://www.hayatacamera.co.jp/article/photo200507.html
LeicaTom
Watch that step!
.......ohh please add the Nikkor SC f1.4/50mm "Tokyo" #5005 series lens to the list (there`s TWO versions of the Nikkor SC f1.4/50mm (in LTM) ~ the "Tokyo" version made in 1950 and the "Japan" version (post 1951)
*Here`s my #5005 series Nikkor (with a rim dent) but overall near EX+ with "very clean" glass - note that the lens is narrower and longer than the "Japan" version (but it is STILL 43mm) - that Hood came with the lens and I think it`s from the Nikkor 135mm, but I`ve USED it on this lens and it shoots/works fine with it* (this was one of those really rare Evilbay goodbuys, like $86 from a North Florida estate)- noone wanted this lens due to the rim damage, but I`ll place another $80 investment in it and I`ll have a very fine working and rare early Nikkor lens for Leica - COSTING UNDER $200!!!!!! I`m really stoked about this lens!*
*......and here`s my Korean War era rig (WITH THE WELL USED BUT NOT ABUSED PATINA!) - my 1945 Leica IIIC K/IIIFBD conversion with the "Tokyo" Nikkor and the push-on hood - it is somewhat big and bulky, but looks the part, as soon as the lens is back from repairs/CLA it`s a modern day metal vented hood for it, unless I can find a vintage vented WALZ hood for it? ~ Anybody have one they don`t want?*
They are both Sonnar designs, but the earlier "Tokyo" version has a smoother/creamier Bokeh, somewhat similar to the Canon f1.5/50mm, or more "Sonnarish" if I can use that as a word here
(Brian Sweeny will also agree with me as well on this....)
Ohh and they are pretty rare, in Nikkon and or LTM mount and are seen sometimes in the $850 price range, they are pretty much a "cult" lens and I prefer it shooting over my other SC even though both examples have beautiful glass, I like the look of the "Tokyo" version better.
(I have one and I will shoot some work with it and my other one as soon as I have it back from repair *dented rim and CLA*)
Ohh and about that Zeiss f1.5/60mm wasn`t that proclaimed by some Leica Historican`s to NOT BE ORIGINAL in the LTM form? And that anything found this way was built from postwar Russian restposten.....
The "wartime" ORIGINAL? Zeiss Sonnar f1.5/f2.0 50mm`s in LTM are few and far between, and I would say that their collector value should`nt be over $600, (many have sold in the past year for way less than that - I know Raid has a f2.0 in a custom LTM mount from the war and I think Brian just found a f1.5 someplace reasonable).
Enjoy!
Tom
*Here`s my #5005 series Nikkor (with a rim dent) but overall near EX+ with "very clean" glass - note that the lens is narrower and longer than the "Japan" version (but it is STILL 43mm) - that Hood came with the lens and I think it`s from the Nikkor 135mm, but I`ve USED it on this lens and it shoots/works fine with it* (this was one of those really rare Evilbay goodbuys, like $86 from a North Florida estate)- noone wanted this lens due to the rim damage, but I`ll place another $80 investment in it and I`ll have a very fine working and rare early Nikkor lens for Leica - COSTING UNDER $200!!!!!!
I`m really stoked about this lens!*
*......and here`s my Korean War era rig (WITH THE WELL USED BUT NOT ABUSED PATINA!) - my 1945 Leica IIIC K/IIIFBD conversion with the "Tokyo" Nikkor and the push-on hood - it is somewhat big and bulky, but looks the part, as soon as the lens is back from repairs/CLA it`s a modern day metal vented hood for it, unless I can find a vintage vented WALZ hood for it? ~ Anybody have one they don`t want?*
They are both Sonnar designs, but the earlier "Tokyo" version has a smoother/creamier Bokeh, somewhat similar to the Canon f1.5/50mm, or more "Sonnarish" if I can use that as a word here
(Brian Sweeny will also agree with me as well on this....)
Ohh and they are pretty rare, in Nikkon and or LTM mount and are seen sometimes in the $850 price range, they are pretty much a "cult" lens and I prefer it shooting over my other SC even though both examples have beautiful glass, I like the look of the "Tokyo" version better.
(I have one and I will shoot some work with it and my other one as soon as I have it back from repair *dented rim and CLA*)
Ohh and about that Zeiss f1.5/60mm wasn`t that proclaimed by some Leica Historican`s to NOT BE ORIGINAL in the LTM form? And that anything found this way was built from postwar Russian restposten.....
The "wartime" ORIGINAL? Zeiss Sonnar f1.5/f2.0 50mm`s in LTM are few and far between, and I would say that their collector value should`nt be over $600, (many have sold in the past year for way less than that - I know Raid has a f2.0 in a custom LTM mount from the war and I think Brian just found a f1.5 someplace reasonable).
Enjoy!
Tom
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Hacker
黑客
Thanks Tom for the details, I will bear the variances in mind. I just wanted a basic list of Sonnars first.
Hacker
黑客
Is the Topcor 5cm f/1.5 a Sonnar also?
bennyng
Benny Ng
I had the impression that it's a modified sonnar. Only a part of the lens retain the original design.
Cheers,
furcafe
Mentor
Not if it's the Simlar. That's a double Gauss design, closer to a Taylor-Hobson/Leitz Xenon or Summarit.
laptoprob
back to basics
januaryman
"Flim? You want flim?"
Long thread, but the prices on the lenses that I know are under valued.
Canon 50/1.5 -- $300?? Not! Try $450 if you can find one. Over $600 at Kevin's.
Jupiter 3 $100? Not for a decent one. Figure on $125 minimum.
Jupiter 8 $30? No no no. $50- $75
We might be better off not listing estimated prices if these are going to fluctuate the way they do. Updating would be necessary on a monthly basis!
BUT if anyone wants to part with that Canon 50/1.5 for $300, just tell me where to send my money. Mark it sold!
Canon 50/1.5 -- $300?? Not! Try $450 if you can find one. Over $600 at Kevin's.
Jupiter 3 $100? Not for a decent one. Figure on $125 minimum.
Jupiter 8 $30? No no no. $50- $75
We might be better off not listing estimated prices if these are going to fluctuate the way they do. Updating would be necessary on a monthly basis!
BUT if anyone wants to part with that Canon 50/1.5 for $300, just tell me where to send my money. Mark it sold!
xayraa33
rangefinder user and fancier
Do not be too discouraged.
there are deals out there.
a good J-3 can be as sweet as any Canon 50 f1.5
I own both.
recently I bought a J-3 from our own David Murphy that I am pleased with for half the price you stated for a good one.
here is the test result at f1.5, nice and close.
Attachments
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januaryman
"Flim? You want flim?"
Nice test and I too have a J3, but it's badly chewed up. I'm thinking a new front element might be in order. I need to run some more tests first, though.
Thanks for the pep talk.