kbg32
neo-romanticist
Well, the beginnings. Part 1 - http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/cameras/fuji_x_pro1_review.shtml
He calls it a "rangefinder", which it is not.
He calls it a "rangefinder", which it is not.
N
Nikon Bob
Guest
OK, so it is not a "rangefinder" in the traditional sense but it may be what a modern "rangefinder" will morf into. At any rate it has far more in common with a RF that a DSLR than it is dissimilar to a traditional RF. As a whole the X Pro1 looks promising.
Bob
Bob
kbg32
neo-romanticist
Bob,
It is not a rangefinder in any sense. It has rangefinder sensibilities, as do a lot of mirrorless cameras, which the Fuji has more in common with. I certainly am not browbeating a dead horse nor dissing it. It is what it is.
It is not a rangefinder in any sense. It has rangefinder sensibilities, as do a lot of mirrorless cameras, which the Fuji has more in common with. I certainly am not browbeating a dead horse nor dissing it. It is what it is.
RedLion
Come to the Faire
I will buy it IF
I will buy it IF
Joe
I will buy it IF
"One feature which is very nice, however, is the ability to select focus points virtually anywhere in the image field, and not solely in the centre area. Critically, user-selected focus points work even with the OVF through a digital overlay (ditto for the framelines). Nice."
If this same focusing aid is available when using manual focus M-mount lenses with the optical viewfinder, then I will buy it! THIS IS A CRITICAL MUST-HAVE.
Joe
Benjamin Oliver
Established
I'm assuming it will be available in MF. Since it is available on the X100, but the X100 has no focus confirmation aid in MF mode, which I am hoping Fuji will put in the X-Pro1.
RedLion
Come to the Faire
Another thought ....
Another thought ....
Actually a thought just occurred to me. With a true rangefinder, you can look at the rangefinder patch and figure out which direction you need to turn the focus ring and by how much to bring it into focus.
How will this be possible with a movable focus confirmation point with the Fuji XPRO-1 Optical Viewfinder? Imagine a user scenario where you're turning the focus ring, hoping for the focus confirmation box (placed anywhere within the optical viewfinder) to light up. You're turning and turning, but you have no visual clues how close you are and in what direction you should be turning the focus ring.
For this feature to be a usable replacement for a true rangefinder, this is going to be more complicated than it looks.
If the M-mount adapter can sense the helicoid travel of the M lens, the camera could know where the manual lens is currently focused. If the camera itself could sense how out of focus the image around the focus point was, it could give an indicator of how close one was to being in focus. These two points of data could be presented in some kind of optical overlay so as to indicate to the user what was needed in order to focus the camera on that selected focus point.
Joe
Another thought ....
Actually a thought just occurred to me. With a true rangefinder, you can look at the rangefinder patch and figure out which direction you need to turn the focus ring and by how much to bring it into focus.
How will this be possible with a movable focus confirmation point with the Fuji XPRO-1 Optical Viewfinder? Imagine a user scenario where you're turning the focus ring, hoping for the focus confirmation box (placed anywhere within the optical viewfinder) to light up. You're turning and turning, but you have no visual clues how close you are and in what direction you should be turning the focus ring.
For this feature to be a usable replacement for a true rangefinder, this is going to be more complicated than it looks.
If the M-mount adapter can sense the helicoid travel of the M lens, the camera could know where the manual lens is currently focused. If the camera itself could sense how out of focus the image around the focus point was, it could give an indicator of how close one was to being in focus. These two points of data could be presented in some kind of optical overlay so as to indicate to the user what was needed in order to focus the camera on that selected focus point.
Joe
Paul T.
Mentor
Sadly, there's no chance at all that the lens will be able to transmit focus distance to the camera. The camera is built for contrast detection, that's the only way it can tell is an object is in focus. The best, generlly feasible method for manual focusing we could have with this hardware is focus peaking - but we don't have that, either. Though being able to manually select a magnified focus point might be handy.
As for the review - so far, so bland. Not one new observation, excpt for the size of the 60mm hood. And altho I don't mind it on a forum, you'd think on a pretty big, commercial website, someone would know how to spell the word "discreet".
bensyverson
Well-known
The term "rangefinder" is unfortunately being altered by manufacturers in collusion with the photo press, to mean something between "attractive camera" and "retro styling." Even more unfortunately, there's not much we can do.
j j
Well-known
I thought plenty of lenses report distance data to cameras? Why no chance here?
The review is, thus far, a hands-on preview. It is what it is.
The review is, thus far, a hands-on preview. It is what it is.
A properly designed adapter could read the distance from the RF cam and transmit it electronically to the camera body, assuming the designer figured out the pinouts of the X lens mount. This would allow parallax correction with the OVF, but there would still be no way to confirm focus in the OVF.
The 'review' (more like an intro) is not by Reichmann, it's by Nick Devlin, btw
The 'review' (more like an intro) is not by Reichmann, it's by Nick Devlin, btw
RedLion
Come to the Faire
Two critical features are a MUST for OVF manual focus.
Two critical features are a MUST for OVF manual focus.
At the very least, there needs to be two critical features in any OVF manual focus confirmation for M lenses:
1. Focus confirmation indicator overlay placed in the Optical Viewfinder showing where the focus point is.
2. Some kind of indicator showing the quantitative degree of focus or out of focus. This is critical so that the user can quickly ascertain by how much and in what direction to turn the manual focus ring in order to get into focus on that selected focus point. To implement this, the sensor would have to be sensing the area around the selected focus point - which means that distance information would HAVE to be sent from the lens to the camera (via a special M-mount adapter) so that parallax could be accounted for so that the OVF focus point would actually correspond to that area on the sensor which was being monitored for micro-contrast. Then the degree of micro-contrast on that point could be conveyed to an overlay on the OVF to show degree of contrast/focus.
Joe
Two critical features are a MUST for OVF manual focus.
At the very least, there needs to be two critical features in any OVF manual focus confirmation for M lenses:
1. Focus confirmation indicator overlay placed in the Optical Viewfinder showing where the focus point is.
2. Some kind of indicator showing the quantitative degree of focus or out of focus. This is critical so that the user can quickly ascertain by how much and in what direction to turn the manual focus ring in order to get into focus on that selected focus point. To implement this, the sensor would have to be sensing the area around the selected focus point - which means that distance information would HAVE to be sent from the lens to the camera (via a special M-mount adapter) so that parallax could be accounted for so that the OVF focus point would actually correspond to that area on the sensor which was being monitored for micro-contrast. Then the degree of micro-contrast on that point could be conveyed to an overlay on the OVF to show degree of contrast/focus.
Joe
noimmunity
scratch my niche
The XP1 is creating more "genre trouble" than any mirrorless to date.
Keith
The best camera is one that still works!
Good review but this constant need to iliterate to the term 'rangefinder' fascinates me .... because it's not.
Why cant people let go of this illusion that if it looks like a rangefinder then it's probably ok to call it one. I can call my cat Rover until I'm blue in the face but the damned thing will never bark!
Why cant people let go of this illusion that if it looks like a rangefinder then it's probably ok to call it one. I can call my cat Rover until I'm blue in the face but the damned thing will never bark!
I've decided that the term 'contrast detector' just doesn't work for me.
Paul T.
Mentor
If FUji didn't include Focus Confirmation for manual mode on the X100, why/how would they do so for M lenses on the XPro1, where the process would be undeniably much more difficult?
I guess it's a process of asking for the impossible, so you've got more scope for disappointment.
I guess it's a process of asking for the impossible, so you've got more scope for disappointment.
N
Nikon Bob
Guest
Yea, if the only quibble with the review or the camera is what type of camera to call it, then the review and the camera have every chance of being fair to middling good.
Bob
peter_n
Mentor
I'm interested in this camera because I've been using a Fuji S5 dSLR for 3+ years. The out of camera JPEGs are amazing from the S5, almost no PP needed. The images are almost film-like and I'm hoping the X-Pro1 is as good.
Richard G
Mentor
Sometimes makes you wonder whether they have actually used a rangefinder camera and really know what is exactly happening with rangefinder focus. Anyway I am glad the X Pro 1 will have this capability: it'll be on my golf bag to help to tell the distance to the pin.
