alcaraban
Established
I'm unsure about Madras. In Athens, Lyon (well, in Lyon there is a lovely gentleman that sells second-hand equipment... but I think that's not the point) or Chicago, I could have one of my other bodies at the nearest DHL office in less than two days if I can phone my brother in Spain. I usually carry a mechanical fixed lens rangefinder just in case, though.
ClaremontPhoto
Jon Claremont
I haven't read every post on this thread; but sufficient to get the flavor.
Why do so many of us buy the very best there is, typically a Leica, and then take a back up in case it doesn't work?
It's been working fine for many years so why should it stop working next week?
Next time I travel I really must take a back up Omega watch, a back up Nokia phone, and a back up Mercedes-Benz.
Why do so many of us buy the very best there is, typically a Leica, and then take a back up in case it doesn't work?
It's been working fine for many years so why should it stop working next week?
Next time I travel I really must take a back up Omega watch, a back up Nokia phone, and a back up Mercedes-Benz.
alcaraban
Established
Murphy's Law, I guess.
Nevertheless, none of my cameras (cheap as they are: fed-2. yashica fx-3, contax 139, ricoh 500g, minolta hi-matic 7s and maxxum 7) has ever stopped working except because exhausted batteries. I traveled to Lisbon last March with just a body and a lens with total confidence.
By the way, if you ever get bored of Montemor you are welcome at my apartment in Badajoz.
ClaremontPhoto
Jon Claremont
Many thanks. You are most generous. I'll remember that.
I've always wanted to photograph that modern bridge (the one that we take from Portugal to the hypermarkets) and also the weird underground car park at El Corte Ingles.
I'd also like to photograph inside the dining places at Pryca hypermarket and similar - they are so banal and totally dull. I wouldn't eat in there though; I tried it once!
Badajoz is a very fine city just 1km or so over the border, and yet so different from Portugal.
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Roger Hicks
Mentor
I'd be the last to deny the power and importance of press photography, so there are two possibilities.
1 You are confusing me with someone else
2 You have grievously misunderstood something I have written. If that was the result of lack of clarity on my part I apologize and I'd be grateful if you could point out where it is so that I can clarify it.
Cheers,
Roger
parsec1
parsec1
Evening Roger,
Perhaps there may have been some misunderstandings.
Afew months ago there was a 'discord' on this forum regarding the M8. I was complaing that the camera was made up of the cheapest components available with very poor quality packed into an over expensive body and ultimatley
sold on the basis of the Leica stamp at a price which was far in excess of it true photographic capacity...hence the need for upgrades and then inevitably an M8.2 which in itself isn't worth the extra cost.
Having used Nikons and Leicas for years I had expected something much better.
It was at this time you said and I quote "Press photography is largely irrellevant"
Regards
Peter D
Perhaps there may have been some misunderstandings.
Afew months ago there was a 'discord' on this forum regarding the M8. I was complaing that the camera was made up of the cheapest components available with very poor quality packed into an over expensive body and ultimatley
sold on the basis of the Leica stamp at a price which was far in excess of it true photographic capacity...hence the need for upgrades and then inevitably an M8.2 which in itself isn't worth the extra cost.
Having used Nikons and Leicas for years I had expected something much better.
It was at this time you said and I quote "Press photography is largely irrellevant"
Regards
Peter D
parsec1
parsec1
At the Daily Express (and no I'm not 'name dropping' I worked there !) the chief photographer was a Victor Blackman some may even have heard of him, anyway we were sent to a 'race riot' in a notorious part of London ,I shan't mention the locale as things have changed there, approached by a large group of rioters hell bent on stopping us shooting (pictures) Vic suggested we swing our Leicas on the end of the straps in circles to 'dissuade them' it worked but there were a few thuds. Making it back to the office we checked over our M4ps wiped off the blood and hair and put them back in the bags for the next days work. Those were the days. LOL
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Ruvy
Established
This one is funny - many like this have happen to me during the years the most amusing (scary?) was opening the camera to get the memory card and seeing its not there... Being resourceful I have connected the camera directly to the computer and..... all the images were there (no card in the camera)... didn't take long to realize my card have been sitting in the card reader... During unpacking I simply forget I have placed it there earlier... Age does wonders - with time, events get more creative than me.
Roger Hicks
Mentor
Dear Peter,
Could you provide a little more context?
To the way that most non-press photographers shoot, yes, press photography (in the sense of which camera to use, and how) is irrelevant. Getting the shot, and getting it back to the newspaper, take precedence over almost everything else.
Thus for an amateur (or indeed a fashion photographer or an advertising photographer or indeed just about anyone except a press photographer) to model his camera choice on what the press uses is as foolish as for a press photographer to use only a tripod-mounted 8x10.
This is a very long way from saying that press photography is irrelevant qua photography, and I apologize if I did not make this sufficiently clear at the time.
Thanks for giving me the opportunity to clarify this.
Cheers,
Roger
parsec1
parsec1
Dear Roger,
Perhaps I was very fortunate but because of a weekend/school break job at a local camera shop I was able in the early 1960s to buy as my first serious camera.. a Leica M2 and a 35mm. I also belonged to the local camera club and a 15 yr old with a Leica did not go down very well with many of its members and even less so when I won a couple of photographic awards using it. After Uni and because of an odd incident, I was on a train that was derailed killing some people and I photographed it using my last 5 flashbulbs on my M2. Phoned the 'Mirror' and was asked to get a taxi and bring it to their then Holborn office. The 'heady' atmosphere in the newsroom and
my first publication.....a front page and two inside pages on the Daily Mirror and I was 'hooked'.
Lets not confuse the importance of getting a picture back to the office to 'getting the shot'.
Very rarely do you turn up at a news 'job' take a 'snap' straight away and run which seems to be the view of many of the less well informed on this forum. As for cameras as you must be aware there was for most of us only Nikon, Pentax (Just hold a pentax) and Leica. That also applied to the many amatuers who were inspired to own one of these cameras.
Now we are spoilt for choice in fact there are too many cameras on the market now and the usual conversation is what kind of camera do you own rather than can I see some of the pictures you have shot.
I retell the story of a couple of years ago.I was in Southend using a couple of Contax G2's one with a 21 and v/f along comes this guy parading the promenade with a huge dslr and a 18 to 500mm or whatever zoom sticking out of his midrift and turning his nose up said to me" Wow thats a couple of 'oldies' you've got there." Such is the power of some camera manufacturers and their advertisers to brainwash us in to buying what they want us to have rather than what we actually require.Hence no more G2s or a decent digital M.
Regards
Peter.
PS the success of the Bessa's and Cosinas and the reputation of the new Zeiss M lenses might be a good time for a rethink about the current obsession with 'plastic dslr's'.
P
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Roger Hicks
Mentor
Dear Peter,
We are in very substantial agreement, except that I took it for granted that 'getting the shot' means 'getting a BLOODY GOOD shot' -- which means we are in agreement too. Likewise about Nikon, Pentax and Leica.
I'm not totally convinced by your 'down' on the M8 but I'll cheerfully agree that I'd rather rely 110% on a 'real' (film) Leica, though I have to ask myself if this is simply lack of experience of the reliability of M8s (mine hasn't failed yet, though it's ony at about 10,000 pictures -- I had the problem of counter resetting with unformatted cards) plus the fact that the internet by its nature attracts whingers in disproportionate numbers.
As for falling short of perfection, well, you must remember the F36 motor drive, which worked perfectly half the time, and the other half the time shot off the rest of the roll.
Cheers,
Roger
parsec1
parsec1
Good evening Roger,
Thank you for taking the time to engage in this disscussion with me.
It does indeed seem there is 'substantial agreement' between us..... including that F36 'thing'.
I wish you and the 'Mrs' good fortune in the future.
Very best regards
Peter D
Turtle
Mentor
Because even good cameras go wrong...
I normally take only one camera if just popping out for the day but on big trips - rarely, although I did take only my Mamiya 7 to india recently due to weight/bulk considerations.
Normally I would take two on a big trip, such as two MPs or Mamiya 7 and MP.
Just is not worth being in some remote location with no working camera. Two Leicas can be a wonderful combo because of small size and speed of handling. I am really looking forward to my next India trip which will probably done this way. 2 x M, 3-4 lenses (prob 21,28,50 and maybe 90)
lawrence
Mentor
I agree about the Leicas. I have two M6TTL (0.58 & 0.72) and my lenses are 21,28,35 & 50 (the 28 on the 0.58 and the 35 on the 0.72).
Somewhat off-topic but how do you feel about visiting India after the recent events there? Personally I have always wanted to go to Rajasthan because my great-grandfather photographed there during the 1860s.
Roger Hicks
Mentor
Ummm....
Two days without shooting. Let's suppose you're in Dharamsala on March 9th, 2009, seat of the Tibetan Government in Exile, and your camera packs up. March 10th is the 50th anniversary of the Lhasa Uprising against the Chinese invasion in 1959.
Or for that matter you're at Arles for the Rencontres; just the first week. Two days is a third of your shooting time.
Or even that you're shooting ballerinas 15 miles from home. If one body packs up, it's only an hour's round trip -- and the end of the dance class. (That's the last time one of my Leicas packed up, an M2, some time in the 90s. Of course I had a backup).
Carrying a second body sounds like REALLY cheap insurance. What's an M2 cost nowadays, after all?
Cheers,
R.
Roger Hicks
Mentor
200 people out of 1.1 billion died, and another 300-odd were wounded. Of course that was a tragedy for those who died or were injured, but so is a motor accident, a considerably greater risk.
Viewed rationally, terrorism in India (or most other countries) is not a risk I'm going to lose sleep over. I'm thinking of going back next year and the slaughter in Mumbai is not a factor that will sway my choice.
Cheers,
Roger
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JoeV
Thin Air, Bright Sun
Interesting point, Roger. This article quotes Bruce Schneier, the noted security expert, who has frequently commented (and written several books) about the tradeoffs of the security business. As he indicates, terrorism, although highly in the public's mind, is by statistics a rather rare phenomenon.
Yet my heart goes out to the victims and their families. And all those who are yet to be affected by the "collateral damage."
~Joe
Yet my heart goes out to the victims and their families. And all those who are yet to be affected by the "collateral damage."
~Joe
Roger Hicks
Mentor
Dear Joe,
Of course!
But this is also why I believe in treating terrorists like common criminals, rather than inventing special laws to glorify them.
The perception of risk and the reality of risk are often very different -- as is illustrated on this very forum whenever child photography is discussed. The big risk of child molestation is from relatives and friends of the family; the risk from strangers on the internet, or indeed from passers-by with cameras, is incalculably small.
Last night I was talking to a friend about this, and he pointed out that the risk of being caught up in something like the Mumbai atrocities, for a visitor, is even more vanishingly small than I suggested.
For easy mathematics, let's say there were 500 killed and wounded out of 1,000,000,000. Odds: 2,000,000:1 against. Now let's say that one quarter of these were visitors/tourists. Odds: 8,000,000:1 against. Now let's say that the odds of such an attack are once every 5 years (60 months) and that you are there for 6 months. Odds: 80,000,000:1 against. If you're there for a month it's 480,000,000:1 against; at ten days, it easily tops a billion to one.
Of course some locations are higher risk than others, but even so, you'd need to be incredibly unlucky.
Cheers,
Roger
SimonSawSunlight
Simon Fabel
better don't try that with mrs big fat nikon f5, it could bring you to jail for a long long time.and I thought you were going to sell your m6 due to lack of reliability
lawrence
Mentor
While I agree with you on a rational level, there's another level to this as far as friends and relations are concerned. Sadly I have had to cancel my Indian trip for this year and now off to South America instead (I guess this is just asking for an earthquake in Lima).