olakiril
Well-known
Ok maybe the price is that high but this is an old sensor.
https://www.vision-systems.com/came...unches-nir-enhanced-12-mpixel-cmv12000-sensor
2014 Launch- but still in production.
I'm guessing development of the Pixii started while ago and it took years to get it to market. This is a startup.
They got farther than these guys-
http://konost.com/development/
Old sensor. The KAF-1600 in my DCS200ir still works. I upgraded the DCS200c by buying an MF-20 and using with film.
I'm guessing development of the Pixii started while ago and it took years to get it to market. This is a startup.
They got farther than these guys-
http://konost.com/development/
Old sensor. The KAF-1600 in my DCS200ir still works. I upgraded the DCS200c by buying an MF-20 and using with film.
james.liam
Well-known
Physics is a bitch.
olakiril
Well-known
It was actually released back in 2010 but there were several other versions released since then. The price point was about the same so that's why I expected it to be lower now.
Pixii was announced in 2018 so they were developing it at least since 2017.
Yes they have come pretty far. And I want them to succeed even as unlikely as it might seem.
The global shutter is great but its major advantage of high frame rate (and one of the reasons it is so expensive) is wasted in pixii. Maybe it might fair better with a cheaper sensor with better resolution and dynamic range.
Kodak made a u43 format CMOS sensor before they folded. It's one of the few I've seen that gave noise numbers for global shutter and a mechanical shutter, there was a 10dB difference. I've seen a lot of banding in Pixii images shot at high ISO- suspect this is a cause.
Digikey used to sell the KAF-18500 used in the M9, it had a list price of $4500 or so.
The 12MPixel CMOS sensor is also available in monochrome.
https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/ams/CMV12000-2E5M1PA/?qs=wlO1EFRhkBBhvzYn7XTRzQ==
Digikey used to sell the KAF-18500 used in the M9, it had a list price of $4500 or so.
The 12MPixel CMOS sensor is also available in monochrome.
https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/ams/CMV12000-2E5M1PA/?qs=wlO1EFRhkBBhvzYn7XTRzQ==
agentlossing
Well-known
Yes, I feel the expensive global shutter is a stupid misstep and a blind attempt to cash in on something that's been a buzzword in totally different photographic circles from the ones the Pixii is hoping to enter.
Offering features the competition lacks is a time proven method of giving new product lines faster starts. Who knows what other improvements Pixii is working on?
From my uneducated (regarding camera design) standpoint, I have to agree. If they had just went for the cheapest CMOS FF they could have found... even one from 5-7 years ago... you’d have to think more people would be interested. I highly doubt a global shutter was the #1 priority of M mount lens users. It might be a first, but it’s too outdated for such an expensive body. It’s a beautiful camera though.
Was it Pop Photo or Modern Photo that ran a "camera of the future" sometime in the early 1970s? One of them featured an electronic shutter, no moving parts,- using LCD or something similar. I'll try to find it.
agentlossing
Well-known
Ko.Fe.
Lenses 35/21 Gears 46/20
Interesting. It looks like they used RF because they don't want to deal with AF. Licensing and else with AF.
And they are doing something with sensor, shutter which big names don't do. Software, dB...
I just can't imagine someone writing to Leica about shutter gizmos and getting answer.
Hopefully they will come with decent sensor size to match RF lenses. ISO, noise I don't care much. Images from this camera are better than early Sigma. Which was cool street P&S, but ugly rendering.
How big is difference between global shutter and electronic shutter. In my imagination both don't need real shutter.
And they are doing something with sensor, shutter which big names don't do. Software, dB...
I just can't imagine someone writing to Leica about shutter gizmos and getting answer.
Hopefully they will come with decent sensor size to match RF lenses. ISO, noise I don't care much. Images from this camera are better than early Sigma. Which was cool street P&S, but ugly rendering.
How big is difference between global shutter and electronic shutter. In my imagination both don't need real shutter.
It would not be any worse than using a rangefinder lens on a full-frame mirrorless camera. Comparing vignetting on my M9 and M Monochrom with those of the Sony full-frame camera, the CCD and offset microlens array does about 1 stop better with fast fifties such as the 50/1.1 7artisans lens.
Make a Sony A7c sized camera as a true rangefinder camera, software correction for vignetting, no screen on the camera, link with the cellular telephony device- done. My guess is- a lot of work to do this. The CMOSIS sensor has a lot of functions, can do a lot under software control. Easier to write code to activate the shutter that is salient to the sensor than to incorporate a mechanical shutter. Saves room in the body as well. As sensors improve, and the global shutters improve- this may be the future.
michael_isaev
Newbie
It is interesting to see how the state of technology shapes what's possible and what's not, and hence how project is appreciated (or not).
On the one hand is requirement of global shutter, which is much less important for still photographers, but which was taken as a staple (at least it seems so) by the creators of Pixii. Since global shutter is not widely common in regular camera sensors, they had to go to a more specialized market with higher prices and older sensor technology, which affects image quality.
On the other hand, there is a story of Reflex camera, a kickstarter startup that allegedly failed because they couldn't source mechanical shutter. So maybe global shutter is a staple, and maybe it did allow to create a working camera, which would be simply impossible, at least reliably, with mechanical camera and newer sensor.
On the one hand is requirement of global shutter, which is much less important for still photographers, but which was taken as a staple (at least it seems so) by the creators of Pixii. Since global shutter is not widely common in regular camera sensors, they had to go to a more specialized market with higher prices and older sensor technology, which affects image quality.
On the other hand, there is a story of Reflex camera, a kickstarter startup that allegedly failed because they couldn't source mechanical shutter. So maybe global shutter is a staple, and maybe it did allow to create a working camera, which would be simply impossible, at least reliably, with mechanical camera and newer sensor.
James Evidon
Member
Stephen,
Where does one go for service? There doesn't seem to be a U.S. representative. Hint, hint.
James Evidon
Member
Perhaps the Pixii not having the complex mechanical components as does the M8 may not require a larger battery.
The specs state is uses a Li-ion 7.4V battery, 1000mAh capacity, model NP-FW50.
I believe it is replaceable, but can also charge in the camera. You can also buy an inexpensive stand-alone charger.
I believe it is replaceable, but can also charge in the camera. You can also buy an inexpensive stand-alone charger.
olakiril
Well-known
It doesn't come with a mechanical shutter or an LCD screen. But the wireless connectivity if used frequently it could consume as much energy as the two omitted parts.
Why would you need to use it frequently?
olakiril
Well-known
Not the cup of tee for everyone but it is a distinctive feature of the Pixii which the company advertises it for.
Personally, I could see this being used much more frequently if other camera companies implement it as fluidly as Pixii did.
If Pixii is using the sensor I believe they are:, there is a monochrome version of it.
I wonder if they will bring out a dedicated monochrome version. A telescope camera I saw charges $300 extra for the monochrome sensor. Most likely it is a smaller run, and needs better uniformity than a color version.
I wonder if they will bring out a dedicated monochrome version. A telescope camera I saw charges $300 extra for the monochrome sensor. Most likely it is a smaller run, and needs better uniformity than a color version.