Guth
Appreciative User
I joined this forum almost one year ago. I ended up here because I bought a rangefinder camera over 18 years ago and was thinking that I was finally going to sell it. This seemed like the best place by far to gain some information on the current marketplace for such cameras. Fast forward to last month and instead of selling the camera I finally loaded it up with film and starting using it again instead.
I've been hanging around here a bit more as a result and have found a number of the conversations to be interesting. I've noticed a few things over the past few weeks that have lead to this post. Back when I bought my camera I don't think anyone noticed it or cared about it in the least. I've now had multiple people (all younger individuals) ask me question about it. More than once this has happened when someone saw me changing out film. I'm also surprised that random people actually know about Leica cameras. Like I said, back when I bought my camera nobody paid any attention to it.
I'm chalking some of this up to the "analog revolution" as I like to call it. I've noticed more and more young people embracing older technologies. Please bear in mind that I'm not talking solely about hipsters. On a recent trip to Victoria B.C. I lost track of how many shops (retail shops, coffee shops, etc.) were playing vinyl records and I saw other people out on the streets with film cameras. Here in Portland where I live it's just more of the same. I also see lots of young folks around here riding older motorcycles with carbs that need to be adjusted and tuned. I can't quite put my finger on why this is. For example, I think it's funny that people are willing to spend as much as they are on new vinyl LP's that were recorded digitally to begin with. So it would seem that there is something to do with the process or rituals involved in vinyl playback that appeals to many younger individuals. I would imagine that the same might be true for film cameras (all this aside from what film brings to the photos themselves).
What's surprising is how this has impacted the marketplace when it comes to vinyl. The number of companies now producing turntables is mind boggling. I'm watching my local music store evolve as records consume larger and larger amounts of the store's footprint. (I'm one of those guys who never gave up on playing LPs.) I checked in with my local camera store to see if they had received any Ektachrome and they answered yes of course. That was followed by the fact that they quickly sold out their allotment.
I do not think that these things are unrelated. I believe that there is a growing segment of the population that are finding greater appeal in a variety of analog technologies and it would seem that the number of people involved are growing at a decent clip. Sort of like the rise in the popularity of micro brewed beer if you will. As I write this, I wonder how long it will be before we see new film camera designs sitting on camera store shelves. I imagine that most will laugh at this, but that's exactly what happened when people used to talk about turntables a number of years ago as well. Interesting times.
I've been hanging around here a bit more as a result and have found a number of the conversations to be interesting. I've noticed a few things over the past few weeks that have lead to this post. Back when I bought my camera I don't think anyone noticed it or cared about it in the least. I've now had multiple people (all younger individuals) ask me question about it. More than once this has happened when someone saw me changing out film. I'm also surprised that random people actually know about Leica cameras. Like I said, back when I bought my camera nobody paid any attention to it.
I'm chalking some of this up to the "analog revolution" as I like to call it. I've noticed more and more young people embracing older technologies. Please bear in mind that I'm not talking solely about hipsters. On a recent trip to Victoria B.C. I lost track of how many shops (retail shops, coffee shops, etc.) were playing vinyl records and I saw other people out on the streets with film cameras. Here in Portland where I live it's just more of the same. I also see lots of young folks around here riding older motorcycles with carbs that need to be adjusted and tuned. I can't quite put my finger on why this is. For example, I think it's funny that people are willing to spend as much as they are on new vinyl LP's that were recorded digitally to begin with. So it would seem that there is something to do with the process or rituals involved in vinyl playback that appeals to many younger individuals. I would imagine that the same might be true for film cameras (all this aside from what film brings to the photos themselves).
What's surprising is how this has impacted the marketplace when it comes to vinyl. The number of companies now producing turntables is mind boggling. I'm watching my local music store evolve as records consume larger and larger amounts of the store's footprint. (I'm one of those guys who never gave up on playing LPs.) I checked in with my local camera store to see if they had received any Ektachrome and they answered yes of course. That was followed by the fact that they quickly sold out their allotment.
I do not think that these things are unrelated. I believe that there is a growing segment of the population that are finding greater appeal in a variety of analog technologies and it would seem that the number of people involved are growing at a decent clip. Sort of like the rise in the popularity of micro brewed beer if you will. As I write this, I wonder how long it will be before we see new film camera designs sitting on camera store shelves. I imagine that most will laugh at this, but that's exactly what happened when people used to talk about turntables a number of years ago as well. Interesting times.
bmattock
Mentor
I think you're on to something.
In my case, I was present at the creation. I ride a 73 Honda. I restore tube amps and record players. I've got thousands of records, some of which I've had since the 70s. I shoot film, my first camera was a Diana - the original.
I build and shoot guns, collect vintage pieces.
I also work in IT, cybersecurity. I'm a Linux geek and heavily into um various technical things.
Best of both worlds.
But I won't drink craft beer or wear plaid ironically.
Gotta draw the line somewhere.
In my case, I was present at the creation. I ride a 73 Honda. I restore tube amps and record players. I've got thousands of records, some of which I've had since the 70s. I shoot film, my first camera was a Diana - the original.
I build and shoot guns, collect vintage pieces.
I also work in IT, cybersecurity. I'm a Linux geek and heavily into um various technical things.
Best of both worlds.
But I won't drink craft beer or wear plaid ironically.
Gotta draw the line somewhere.
Guth
Appreciative User
lol, great response bmattock. Sounds like we're on a similar timeline and wavelength. I work in IT as well. I find that I need a certain amount of balance in my life between the new and the old. The older I get the less I enjoy "some" of new technologies and what they bring to the table. After I finish a craft beer, I'm going to spend some time with my acoustic guitar this evening, or my therapy as I like to call it. (I almost never play electric and gave my old Fender tube amp away to my brother as a gift a couple of years ago.)
bmattock
Mentor
Sounds like a fine evening. My therapy this evening was watching Arsenic And Old Lace with the missus. Monday night, I'm going to see the English Beat, my one concert a year.
bayernfan
Well-known
It is growing. I was in a coffee shop earlier today, grading some papers. Three young ladies (16 year olds, I'd say) walked in, two of them with film cameras around their necks. They were the furthest thing from "hipster".
We had a great little conversation on SLRs vs rangefinders.
We had a great little conversation on SLRs vs rangefinders.
Guth
Appreciative User
Yes, this is much more along the lines of what I’m referring to. Don’t get me wrong as I’m not hating on hipsters here, but I do see the appeal of this sort of thing stretching way beyond the “hipster market”. That’s one of many reasons that I find this all so interesting. In the turntable world there has been a renaissance of many different formats such as belt-drive, direct-drive, (and other more obscure drive systems). This would be the equivalent of seeing a renewed interest in both new SLR’s, and new rangefinders for use with film, not just in the use of film itself.
charjohncarter
Mentor
I still use my Pioneer stereo receiver ('69), and play my great collection of vinyl, many analog cameras and a frig full of film. Life is the way I want it now. But I just bought a DSLR (FF). I don't think it is going to turn me on. But I'll keep you posted.
Brand new Pioneer Receiver and Dual Turn Table; 1969:
H&W Copy Film; H&W developer by John Carter, on Flickr
Brand new Pioneer Receiver and Dual Turn Table; 1969:
H&W Copy Film; H&W developer by John Carter, on FlickrSteve M.
Mentor
Are there music companies that actually made vinyl records from digital recordings? I wondered about that, and found this little nugget on an audio forum
"A properly mastered vinyl record from a digital source will sound better than a poorly mastered CD from a digital source." So yes, it happens.
That makes sense to me. All things being equal, which of course they never are, vinyl SHOULD sound "better" than a CD if you have a really good turntable, needle, amp and speakers. Most people don't. But for sure, music that is recorded using analog mics and recorded straight to vinyl will be of higher quality than a digitally recorded CD IF the people doing the recording knew their stuff.
I have a cassette tape of Bob Neuwirth's "Back To The Front" album that was recorded mostly in someone's living room using analog mikes (the album, not my cassette), and it has fantastic sound quality. You think that you're in the same room listening to them. This is an acoustic album, which is analog's forte, but go to youtube some time and give some of the tracks a listen and see what you think. Good stuff.
While we're on the subject, a really cool guy who owned a record store in Daytona Beach showed me about 30 years ago that mono sounds better than stereo. Stereo is an artificial way of recording, mono is straight from the source, and if done properly the sound is fresher and clearer in mono.
My take on the film thing is that when you see it happening in coffeehouses, it's hipsters, and that's a different thing than film making a resurgence. That's just fashion. Having lived in Portland a few times, I'm well aware that it has a lot of hipsters.
"A properly mastered vinyl record from a digital source will sound better than a poorly mastered CD from a digital source." So yes, it happens.
That makes sense to me. All things being equal, which of course they never are, vinyl SHOULD sound "better" than a CD if you have a really good turntable, needle, amp and speakers. Most people don't. But for sure, music that is recorded using analog mics and recorded straight to vinyl will be of higher quality than a digitally recorded CD IF the people doing the recording knew their stuff.
I have a cassette tape of Bob Neuwirth's "Back To The Front" album that was recorded mostly in someone's living room using analog mikes (the album, not my cassette), and it has fantastic sound quality. You think that you're in the same room listening to them. This is an acoustic album, which is analog's forte, but go to youtube some time and give some of the tracks a listen and see what you think. Good stuff.
While we're on the subject, a really cool guy who owned a record store in Daytona Beach showed me about 30 years ago that mono sounds better than stereo. Stereo is an artificial way of recording, mono is straight from the source, and if done properly the sound is fresher and clearer in mono.
My take on the film thing is that when you see it happening in coffeehouses, it's hipsters, and that's a different thing than film making a resurgence. That's just fashion. Having lived in Portland a few times, I'm well aware that it has a lot of hipsters.
bayernfan
Well-known
It's happening. Several people/companies are at work on it. The demand, particularly among the compact and rangefinder crowd, is there.
As for turntables, I thoroughly enjoy my SL-1200MK5.
davidnewtonguitars
Family Snaps
We think this is all new to us, but hasn't each generation used the obsolete stuff from the preceding generation, rebuilt, repaired, cleaned up, new old stock, and enjoyed it right along?
bmattock
Mentor
Except for manual transmissions. The kids can play, but they can't shift.
CMur12
Well-known
Ain't that the truth!
(I drive a Honda Accord with a manual transmission. Still not reconciled to automatics. Still prefer manual focus on my cameras.
)- Murray
Guth
Appreciative User
My son inherited my 1999 Audi A4 and is proud of the fact that it has a manual transmission. I was surprised to learn that he has more than one friend who also drive cars with manual transmissions. These are the same kids who came by their drivers licenses just a bit later in life choosing to get around largely by mass transit instead after turning 16. These days I get my manual transmission needs met by a Honda S2000. (I also own a t-shirt dedicated to The Manual Transmission Preservation Society, lol.)
Still I don't get the sense that what I'm observing is quite the same as generations in the past rehashing and reusing things from previous generations. Those decisions were often based largely on a lack of money and as a matter of convenience. Younger folks these days are going to a fair amount of effort to seek out and find analog items. They're paying a fair amount more and also investing more time in their pursuits of the older technology than I would have expected.
Still I don't get the sense that what I'm observing is quite the same as generations in the past rehashing and reusing things from previous generations. Those decisions were often based largely on a lack of money and as a matter of convenience. Younger folks these days are going to a fair amount of effort to seek out and find analog items. They're paying a fair amount more and also investing more time in their pursuits of the older technology than I would have expected.
JoeV
Thin Air, Bright Sun
I guess I’m a 61 year old hipster, since I have (as of last count) 23 typewriters. Perhaps there’s a 12-step program available?
madNbad
Well-known
Then stay away from Blue Moon Camera and Machine. Nothing but analog cameras and typewriters.
charjohncarter
Mentor
When I get my DSLR on Tuesday I'll take a picture of my Olympia portable typewriter, and post.
Guth
Appreciative User
Ironically, one of the businesses that we saw while in Victoria was a place where you could rent time with your choice of typewriters by the hour. That was a new one on me.
Sumarongi
Registered Vaudevillain
Perhaps the answer is: particularly the young(er) people that you mention, they're just fed-up with ephemeral items; they prefer sustainable products.
It would be very intriguing to know how their upbringing was. (And: Who did tell them the secret that economic growth isn't everything in human life?)
It would be very intriguing to know how their upbringing was. (And: Who did tell them the secret that economic growth isn't everything in human life?)
lynnb
Mentor
I live in a fairly conservative part of Sydney, but it's touristy as well. Not many film cameras around people's necks. However the Sydney Camera Market, held 3 times a year, is drawing more people. Prices are going up, but that's also a reflection of international demand and the fall of the AUD.
People only notice my film cameras when they're obvious, like a TLR or folder. Even the Barnacks don't get noticed much (which I like).
C41 processing is still fairly accessible from minilabs in the suburbs but E-6 and bw are hard to find, and expensive. I process my own bw.
I'm happy that demand for film seems to be increasing. Maybe that will not only guarantee supply, but also help to bring prices down. Tri-X is $20 a roll here (36 exp.) unless you shop around on the internet, where it can be had locally for around $10-$12.
People only notice my film cameras when they're obvious, like a TLR or folder. Even the Barnacks don't get noticed much (which I like).
C41 processing is still fairly accessible from minilabs in the suburbs but E-6 and bw are hard to find, and expensive. I process my own bw.
I'm happy that demand for film seems to be increasing. Maybe that will not only guarantee supply, but also help to bring prices down. Tri-X is $20 a roll here (36 exp.) unless you shop around on the internet, where it can be had locally for around $10-$12.
David Hughes
David Hughes
I'm beginning to wish I'd not dumped the old TL12 but something nasty was leaking from the transformer...
Regards, David
Regards, David