bmattock
Mentor
Often but not always.
Well said. And I do indeed use the best (I hope) of both worlds. I do tend to cling a bit more than I need to to the old - but I hope I can be forgiven as I am older now and I has the nostalgia.
I work with the new on a daily basis. I love technology.
However, as the guy who sees the sausage made will not eat sausage again, there are certain aspect of modern technology which I actively avoid. For example, I drive an old truck and will continue to do so. I know enough about the newer ones to want no part in them.
Godfrey
somewhat colored
Three labs. THREE labs. Who seem to be "very busy". Sigh. And you're calling this evidence of an amazing "renaissance of film"? Utter nonsense.
Once upon a time, when I was in the photofinishing business in the early 1980s, in my small town (Santa Cruz, CA) there were 45 operating photofinishing lab, all making a good profit processing around 200 rolls of film per week, each. Never mind the ten or twenty departments in large stores, like pharmacies and groceries, that took in film, sent it out, and delivered the finished goods.
The reality is that film sales and photofinishing is a marginally tiny fraction of the photographic industry these days. It may have grown a little in recent years, but since the maturation of electronic photography around about 2010 or so, the numbers have remained pretty stable at about 2-3% of industry invoicing.
I love film photography, but the realities are now that it is a tiny niche community that continue to do it. Which is why I can afford to buy an entire Hasselblad V system kit for under $1500 or a Leica R kit including camera, lenses, and accessories for under $800. I celebrate that ability but I'm aware of the reasons why it is possible...
Guth, it's not your doing. It's just how all these discussions tend to go. These discussions have been going on since 2000 or so, over and over again, where the film camp and the digital camp always polarize and argue for their sacred cow. The small rise in film use recently is nice, but it's not an industry wide trend; it doesn't change the reality that there are only a spare couple of quality film cameras still in production and film itself is getting both difficult to find and hard to get processed to a decent quality standard. There's been virtually no development of new film cameras or films other than a spotty thing here or there for almost twenty years now: There's very little profit to invest in something that has so little return.
It is what it is.
To that last sentence: I'm not on the average, I'm sure, but to me if I'm not processing my own film, B&W at least, I'm not actually doing film photography. I have always processed my own film and that's why I believe I understand the medium, both what it does well and how it is so very limited, as well as I do. Go there and you'll find that there's a lot more richness to your film photography, particularly B&W film photography, than you can ever get by sending film to have someone else process it.
Godfrey
somewhat colored
Thank you for the compliment. I'm older too, now: Lots of stuff has its nostalgic draw, it reminds me of my youth. The reality is that when I use that stuff with open eyes, I see its limitations so much more clearly now than when I was twenty or thirty years younger. And I accept.
When it comes to vehicles, well, same principles apply. I have a new motorcycle, a 12 year old sports car, and a new bicycle. The motorcycle and the car are far and away superior to the ones I owned thirty years ago. So is the bicycle. As time goes on, however, I find myself slowly losing the life-long addiction to motor vehicles and enjoying the bicycle more and more. I can foresee a time when I won't want to own a motor vehicle any more at all, just rent one when it's needed. I'll get my jollies and do my daily needs for transport with the bicycle entirely then ... and it will be better for me. And it's better for the environment as well.
G
"With Time, things change. Change is essential to Life. When Change stops, Life ends. One's options become very limited then."
Yokosuka_Mike
Abstract Clarity
After a day of shooting film with one of my Bessa rangefinders, on the train ride home I’ll kill a little time by taking the film out of the camera and reloading a new roll. Often when I do this the older Japanese men seated near me will casually observe the ritual and smile. The younger people around me have their faces firmly planted on their smartphones oblivious to the world around them.
As for automobiles, I gave up driving when I retired 3 years ago. The walking does me good and the public transportation in Japan is so good that I look back and wonder why I didn’t quit driving years sooner. I used to be an avid cyclist but now I’m a devoted pedestrian. I’ve worn out many pairs of Brooks walking addiction shoes.
Life is good (knock on wood),
Mike
As for automobiles, I gave up driving when I retired 3 years ago. The walking does me good and the public transportation in Japan is so good that I look back and wonder why I didn’t quit driving years sooner. I used to be an avid cyclist but now I’m a devoted pedestrian. I’ve worn out many pairs of Brooks walking addiction shoes.
Life is good (knock on wood),
Mike
KM-25
Well-known
You are saying that, not me. I told Ted to go and take stock of who is doing what and by how much. My friend Bob Carnie in Toronto runs a lab as well and is also very busy.
I never said anything about a mainstream, mid 1990's level lab renaissance, just sharing what I do know.
As I have said possibly 100 times before on this site, my living and therefore my ability to procure, shoot, process and print film depends on it sticking around so you will have to forgive my optimism, it's what I have always projected in regards to film.
Ko.Fe.
Lenses 35/21 Gears 46/20
I miss analog world parts which were positive. You could have same camera, same job, same house for many years.
Since it went digital I'm in the third country. And it is changing way too fast to be good...
Since it went digital I'm in the third country. And it is changing way too fast to be good...
konicaman
konicaman
I am too old to be a hipster but I embrace both worlds. Part time IT consultant, part time running a web shop with fountain pens, inks and high Q paper. Yes, I have a car with manual transmission but that does not say much; 95% of all European cars have a stick - I hate automatic transmissions though, partly due to the price - getting an automatic gear box repaired here in Denmark is at least £2000, a new one at least £3000 and partly due to the lack of control on icy roads.
I my town of app. 300.000 inhabitants there is only one (fortunately a very good one) photo lab left, but people are standing in line there and I see more and more young people roaming the streets with film cameras.I still shoot film. which I grew up on, due to the looks but also enjoy digital.
I do not listen to music, being more or less tone deaf, but practically all our younger friends and relatives have good old-fashioned turntables and rather large vinyl collections.
A resurrection for film, new cameras? Well, I cross my fingers!
I my town of app. 300.000 inhabitants there is only one (fortunately a very good one) photo lab left, but people are standing in line there and I see more and more young people roaming the streets with film cameras.I still shoot film. which I grew up on, due to the looks but also enjoy digital.
I do not listen to music, being more or less tone deaf, but practically all our younger friends and relatives have good old-fashioned turntables and rather large vinyl collections.
A resurrection for film, new cameras? Well, I cross my fingers!
JeffS7444
Well-known
One of the things I enjoy about analog is the sense that many of my "new toys" are basically picked out of someone else's trash, so the environmental cost has already been paid.
A lot of today's shiny tech toys are really just front-ends to someone else's cloud services, hence you don't really own them.
A lot of today's shiny tech toys are really just front-ends to someone else's cloud services, hence you don't really own them.
roscoetuff
Well-known
Godfrey is right to suggest appreciate each for their own characteristics, and like that which you use.
That said, I think film photographers stand out because of their rarity. Not a bad thing. Consider that I just got back from a trip to Paris where I used my (new to me) Rollieflex 3.5 to see how what shooting film and travel mixed... the answer to which is "slowly", but "fine" as well. Big surprise lay in the number of photographers - both Pro and Amateur - who would come up and talk with me, shoot photos of me shooting pictures (which happened more than you'd think) and the social aspects... which never has happened per se with digital. Nice to find a camera where you can make friends, too... for me. Others I'm sure would hate it. But it became kind of a shared experience.
Do I miss shots I'd have gotten with digital? Yes, and the reverse is true, too... but only because it forces me to think and where I am as a photographer (amateur..duh!) is that this helps... and it may help me more than it helps others. And so I'm having fun with it. But I also just got back from a visit to my daughter where I took only my cell phone.
As Godfrey suggests, the camera choice for use is often driven by need, capability and suitability to the excursion. My default these days is film... because it's an exploration. But production pushes other buttons. But always have fun if you can.
That said, I think film photographers stand out because of their rarity. Not a bad thing. Consider that I just got back from a trip to Paris where I used my (new to me) Rollieflex 3.5 to see how what shooting film and travel mixed... the answer to which is "slowly", but "fine" as well. Big surprise lay in the number of photographers - both Pro and Amateur - who would come up and talk with me, shoot photos of me shooting pictures (which happened more than you'd think) and the social aspects... which never has happened per se with digital. Nice to find a camera where you can make friends, too... for me. Others I'm sure would hate it. But it became kind of a shared experience.
Do I miss shots I'd have gotten with digital? Yes, and the reverse is true, too... but only because it forces me to think and where I am as a photographer (amateur..duh!) is that this helps... and it may help me more than it helps others. And so I'm having fun with it. But I also just got back from a visit to my daughter where I took only my cell phone.
As Godfrey suggests, the camera choice for use is often driven by need, capability and suitability to the excursion. My default these days is film... because it's an exploration. But production pushes other buttons. But always have fun if you can.
Ted Striker
Well-known
I already told you. The lab I use has one run per week. The labs I used to use, no longer exist.
Bill Clark
Mentor
Baby boomers, like me, ah for the good old days. Vinyl records, film cameras.
10,000 retiring each day!
https://www.fool.com/retirement/2017/07/29/9-baby-boomer-statistics-that-will-blow-you-away.aspx
I like your thoughts.
Thanks for sharing them with us here on rangefinder forum.
10,000 retiring each day!
https://www.fool.com/retirement/2017/07/29/9-baby-boomer-statistics-that-will-blow-you-away.aspx
I like your thoughts.
Thanks for sharing them with us here on rangefinder forum.
Ted Striker
Well-known
How did you end up retiring to Japan? That's sort of a dream of mine, to retire to a small apartment somewhere in Japan. I dont know how feasible it is.
ChipMcD
Well-known
There have been a lot of thoughtful posts here and elsewhere on the state of film. It seems to me that the film market may be near an equilibrium point. The reintroduction of Ektachrome is heartening. I find that I shoot digital for color and film for black & white. I hope that Ilford keeps producing their line, Kodak keeps producing Tri-X and XX and that FOMA and the even smaller companies hang on and even grow. In short, although it will remain a very small niche, maybe film will continue to have a place for many years.
At some point, however, all of the wonderful film cameras that I lusted after as a youth and, thanks to pros' abandoning film, can now afford (Rolleiflex, Hasselblad V series and, to a lesser degree of affordability, Leica) will eventually start to wear out. Then there may be neither parts nor repairpersons. That point in time may show us whether film will survive. Today, I think that only Nikon (the F6) and Leica (a few Ms) are still manufacturing new, but very expensive, 35mm cameras (and I'm not entirely sure about Leica). In medium format, as far as I know, we're looking at Horseman and Linhof, both of which manufacture only expensive and very specialized models. In LF there's more variety, but the price of entry there too is still high. Production of any of these is pretty small. When we see a manufacturer (not a Go Fund Me dreamer) producing an affordable film camera, we'll know that film is likely to be around for awhile.
At some point, however, all of the wonderful film cameras that I lusted after as a youth and, thanks to pros' abandoning film, can now afford (Rolleiflex, Hasselblad V series and, to a lesser degree of affordability, Leica) will eventually start to wear out. Then there may be neither parts nor repairpersons. That point in time may show us whether film will survive. Today, I think that only Nikon (the F6) and Leica (a few Ms) are still manufacturing new, but very expensive, 35mm cameras (and I'm not entirely sure about Leica). In medium format, as far as I know, we're looking at Horseman and Linhof, both of which manufacture only expensive and very specialized models. In LF there's more variety, but the price of entry there too is still high. Production of any of these is pretty small. When we see a manufacturer (not a Go Fund Me dreamer) producing an affordable film camera, we'll know that film is likely to be around for awhile.
Ted Striker
Well-known
I'd like to know if Fujifilm and Kodak will still be around in 5 and then 10 years. Fujifilm will still exist of course, and sell Instax film. But they are clearly thinning their still photographic films and some even speculate that they are not coating any new rolls of film at all anymore; just selling off old stock. If true the next 1-2 years will be mighty depressing for fans of those films.
In Kodak's case, that they even will exist in the next 5 years is seriously an open question. Kodak is in serious financial difficulty now which is clearly reflected in their stock price.
-12.4% the past week (!!)
-17% the past month
-34% the past quarter
-63% the past year
Those are horrific numbers. The pace of decline is accelerating, not arresting.
Kodak reports earnings in a couple of weeks. It's expected that the CEO will propose carving off the most profitable part of the company and selling it off to try to raise funds to stay alive.
This strategy didnt work well for Sears. I dont see it working here either.
Guth
Appreciative User
Personally I would not measure the intensity of a resurgence in film photography based against levels that it previously enjoyed before it’s demise. Instead I would try to measure any new growth against the low point in film’s use. As to whether or not a true renaissance is happening, or is possible or is just plain ludicrous depends on each individual’s point of view. With that in mind I suppose some sort of agreed upon standards would need to be established. One of those would have to do with the documented opening of new film processing labs. Another would surely have to do with the introduction or the reintroduction of film options that did not exist at films’ low point. Another measure would of course be the introduction (or again the reintroduction) of film cameras that do not currently exist.
I realize that this this last unit of measure is the least likely to happen but also the single biggest indicator of a true renewed interest in film by both photographers and industry alike. I’m sure that this is the event that most would never see happening. People used to say exactly the same thing about turntables. (At one point in the late eighties after I bought a new turntable I literally could not give my old Technics turntable away. When it became apparent that no one wanted it I sadly ended up throwing it out in a dumpster as I just didn’t have enough storage space for it.) So I’ll go out on a limb here, purely for the sake of conversation, and predict that we’ll see a film camera introduced by someone other than Leica within the next five years.
This is only my gut feeling and I’ve already pointed out here a few times that I’ve been removed from the world of photography for close to a decade at this point. (I’m not counting my use of the camera in my iPhone as photography — not in my case anyway, even if I’ve made plenty of images with it.) So take this prediction with the good sized chunk of salt that it deserves. I also think that any such move by a camera manufacturer will be the result of a demand coming from a far younger demographic than the category I currently find myself in (i.e. Old Fart, lol). Regardless, none of this is to say that film photography is anything more than a niche field at this point. I’m viewing analog and digital choices living side by side more so than the two competing with one another. Digital photography will certainly be around well past my lifetime. It might not closely resemble the recipe currently being used, but it will no doubt be around for a very long time.
I realize that this this last unit of measure is the least likely to happen but also the single biggest indicator of a true renewed interest in film by both photographers and industry alike. I’m sure that this is the event that most would never see happening. People used to say exactly the same thing about turntables. (At one point in the late eighties after I bought a new turntable I literally could not give my old Technics turntable away. When it became apparent that no one wanted it I sadly ended up throwing it out in a dumpster as I just didn’t have enough storage space for it.) So I’ll go out on a limb here, purely for the sake of conversation, and predict that we’ll see a film camera introduced by someone other than Leica within the next five years.
This is only my gut feeling and I’ve already pointed out here a few times that I’ve been removed from the world of photography for close to a decade at this point. (I’m not counting my use of the camera in my iPhone as photography — not in my case anyway, even if I’ve made plenty of images with it.) So take this prediction with the good sized chunk of salt that it deserves. I also think that any such move by a camera manufacturer will be the result of a demand coming from a far younger demographic than the category I currently find myself in (i.e. Old Fart, lol). Regardless, none of this is to say that film photography is anything more than a niche field at this point. I’m viewing analog and digital choices living side by side more so than the two competing with one another. Digital photography will certainly be around well past my lifetime. It might not closely resemble the recipe currently being used, but it will no doubt be around for a very long time.
KM-25
Well-known
But the photo world is a lot bigger than Ann Arbor Michigan.
Not sure what else to say really other than I agree with what the OP has said about measuring the uptick from the low point ( 2008?), not 1999.
The closest lab to me for color is 225 miles away so what little color I do, I send out. For black and white I use this new lab:
Attachments
Guth
Appreciative User
Man, you have a really sweet setup there. When I was in college I spent a couple of years as a darkroom tech for a professional photographer. (It was long enough ago that I would listen to mix tapes played by way of the reel-to-reel that he had installed there in the darkroom. I developed a lot of film (mostly color) and printed a lot of portraits and wedding photographs. He did all of the printing of the stuff that really interested him, lol.
Your setup looks nicer than his darkroom from the best of my hazy recollection. Very nice!
Your setup looks nicer than his darkroom from the best of my hazy recollection. Very nice!
css9450
Mentor
For C-41 I use a lab in suburban Glen Ellyn. But judging by the "sequence numbers" they assign to the negatives, there is a sharp uptick in the fall and spring when the local community college is in session, and a noticeable falloff in summer when the college photo classes are not offered. Processing in summer slows to a trickle. I've never used their B&W services though... Too easy to do it myself (and I suspect the bulk of the students do theirs in the school lab).
Yokosuka_Mike
Abstract Clarity
Ted, the short answer is that I'm married to a Japanese citizen, that takes care of my being a legal resident here. The reason I choose to live in Japan is because I love it here.
Good luck with your dreams.
Mike
Ted Striker
Well-known
Interesting. What's the lab's name in Glen Ellyn. I'm sometimes in Naperville and might pop buy and use them if I have a need.
My lab is a 3 minute walk from the U of M in Ann Arbor. THE largest university in Michigan, yet they do a single run of film per week.